Anyone use a Scarp in High winds.

I had a Scarp 2 in 60-70mph winds (pretty much hurricane force winds) last weekend in the Utah desert. We were camped in a canyon cirque, so the winds came from all directions. I used the crossing poles, but I forgot my midpole guylines at home. I was the only one in the tent during this trip.

When I arrived at camp at around 6pm on Friday, the winds were gusting at around 40mph. I set up the tent at the top of a hill to test it's wind-worthiness. The soil was very firm dirt (had to pound the stakes in). I set boulders on top of the stakes. It did fine, but the winds died down a bit overnight.

The next day, I left the tent at camp at around 7am to do some canyoneering. During the day, the winds picked up. We probably had gusts of up to 40-50mph, but I'm not 100% sure, as I was in a slot canyon.

When I returned at around 7pm, the stakes had held, but the main pole was bent. If I had remembered to bring the midpole guylines, I doubt the pole would have bent. I then moved the tent to a more sheltered location, on a platform on the side of the hill, with bushes lining one side. The ground was a softish sand here. The winds died down for a while, probably down to 30mph. However, at around midnight, the winds picked up significantly, with gusts easily hitting 60-70mph. I didn't fall asleep until around 4am. During this time:

1) The tent was deforming quite a bit in all directions, but especially aligned with the main pole axis (guylines would have helped here). For my own sanity, I felt the need to brace the tent with my limbs in all directions during gusts, at least once every 10-20 minutes.

2) I had to restake the tent several times, even with 10lb rocks placed on them. MSR Groundhogs might have faired better with the soft sandyish soil. At one point, when the stakes had pulled out, a gust hit so hard (off-axis from the main pole), that it rolled me up to a sitting position.

3) One of the clips on the fly that attaches to the solid inner tent broke – the one by the door. This created significant flapping and deforming on that side of the tent for the rest of the night.

At around 4am, I was so exhausted, I fell asleep and no longer cared about the deformation of the tent, as I became confident that it would not collapse on me. I was woken up several times by continued gusts, when the tent deformed enough to hit me in the face, or push me around.

I woke up around 830am. The winds had died down a bit, and were probably gusting at around 40-50mph at this point. The stakes were holding just fine. We left for another canyoneering trip at around 9am.

During the day, I'm sure there were gusts of around 60mph, and likely 70mph. We were on Lake Powell, and a boat was picking us up from the canyon exit. The waves were so large/powerful, one splashed over the bow and shattered the windshield. There were many rescues on the lake that day.

Showing up back at camp at around 7pm, I found that the tent was gone (HUGE lesson learned). I searched the canyon and several off-shoots for several miles (maybe 8-10mi?) both that evening and the next morning, but wasn't able to find it.

I haven't contacted Henry about this all yet, as the tent is gone, so I'm not sure what he'd normally do about the bent main pole and the broken clip in this situation.

We had a large group of about 10 people in total (some canyoneers, some hikers). Three other peoples' tents had poles that were bent. One REI brand, one Big Agnes brand, and one MSR brand (Hubba Hubba?). The REI tent was returned or replaced, MSR is replacing the poles, and I didn't get any feedback on Big Agnes' resolution.

Out of all the tents, I believe a Black Diamond Lighthouse faired the best – at least it appeared to during daylight hours. The MSR Hubba Hubba collapsed once or twice – once during the night, and once during the day. There were a couple of car-camping tents that made out with minor damage, also, but one or both collapsed at one point or another. Several tents had to be restaked throughout the night, and while we were gone on the second canyoneering day, in addition to turning my tent into a kite, the winds completely flipped over a another tent (REI) with 10lb rocks in each of the corners, and I believe collapsed another tent (aside from the MSR).

I'm really disappointed in my loss of the tent, but I definitely learned some important lessons when tenting in high winds and the desert. For instance, sil-nylon picks up sand like those magnet drawing toys, and mesh-inners will ensure you have an inch or two of sand in your tent (the Scarp with a mostly solid inner did well, here, but still let some in).

Damn Brian, that was a hell of an experience. Sorry you lost your tent, and thank you for the comment on the Lighthouse. I had mine for sale, but I think I'm going to go ahead and keep it in case I ever need a bomber tent or camp in a place where I can expect a sandstorm.

Brian – thanks very much for sharing your experience. Amazing story, really.

My question would be: What are you going to replace the Scarp with? Another Scarp or….?

Well, winter is essentially over, I've been looking to shed weight and I'm now single, so for now, I'm going try out a tarp/bivy setup and see how I like it. I should be able to hit an 8lb baseweight for 30 degree temperatures in the alpine.

When things change, I'd like to talk to Henry and see if he's sympathetic to my experience (hint hint). If so, it'd be easier to bite the bullet for another Scarp 2. I really did like that tent overall, and I think if I had been more experienced, things would have gone better (midpole guyouts, more appropriate stakes). In the mountains, I know the winds pretty well, so it has been relatively easy to set the tent up appropriately for the wind direction. The canyon winds are a lot less predictable and extremely erratic: all 4 compass directions AND from above at times, with the wind changing direction with just about every gust. I also wasn't prepared to deal with sandyish soil.

Despite also loosing my camera (the canyon walls opened my hipbelt pocket while shimmying through), bringing the total in lost gear to over $700, the experience was something I wouldn't trade away, due to the lessons learned… well that, and the canyons were AMAZING! – some of the pools were deep enough to skip the rappel and do 35' jumps, so I got both my aesthetic kicks, and my adrenaline kicks at the same time. I'm really looking forward to another canyoneering trip in two weeks in the Escalante area. This time we'll be backpacking in, rather than taking a boat to base camp.

Great pics. I was in Escalante in early April and was amazed at the wind that would rip through the canyons. It would be steady and then a huge gust – you would hear it against the canyon walls and then s few seconds later it would hit. We didn't have wind nearly as aggressive as you, but the powdered sand and wind made an interesting evening.

I have a Scarp 1 and I was using it on a winter trip in the Snowy Mountains (Australia) last year. On the last night there was a massive storm. The wind howled and it rained and sleeted all night. There were gusts up to 120km per hour

The tent handled it much better than I did. Like Brian's experience, it was NOT a restful night. The wind was mostly quartering the tent and wasn't broadsiding it, but the sides still kept deforming and hitting me in the face.

I had the extra poles attached and was very thankful that I did. I also had snow pegs buried deep and packed solid and they didn't move. The storm hit just on dark and lasted till daylight before it calmed down.

The Scarp suffered no damage, no bent poles or tears. This is nice to know now, but at the time I was sure that the entire tent was going to be torn to shreds exposing me to the elements. But in the cold light of day it was evident that it had held up very well.

Hi Brian,

That was an Epic experience you encountered, It certainly gives me an insight to the capabilities and slight limitations of the Scarp.

I will be offline until Saturday and will digest your experiences while away.

I am trying to figure out if the Scarp would replace my bomber tent and I wont be able to do that until I experience the Scarp first hand in Scotland.

My bomber tent is a semi geo and it can handle 80'mph easily but is awkward in winter due to minimal porch space for melting snow and is inner pitch first so I have decided to move this on.

If am looking at the hilleberg suolo at the moment and it certainly addresses the limitations of both the Scarp and my semi geo for winter and crazy winds.

I do want to try a scarp in high winds but will bring a bivy bag with me Just in case I have to drop the tent, as I travel to the mountains via public transport bailing out to the car is not an option I have.

Thanks very much for your post.

Stephen

Hi Andrew,

Just spotted your post, I am running out the door but will reply Saturday.

Cheers,

Stephen

Why weren't the Scarp tents guyed out at the midpole points in both of these cases?

There are sticks and rocks available for use as anchors, and I'd guess some extra cordage could be scrounged up from other gear. I leave the midpole guylines attached to my Scarp 2 and Moment all of the time, and stake them out if there's the slightest possibility of high winds due to a passing thunderstorm. The main pole being vulnerable to wind from the side is a known weakness and tradeoff with this design.

I left my midpole guylines at home. Like I said, I should have been using my midpole guyouts to have avoided the bent pole. I don't think the midpole guyouts would have made a difference in tent deformation. The winds deformed the tent in many different directions, not just along the axis of the main pole. In addition, the inner tent is not fixed to any pole, and deformed quite a bit on it's own (the velcro wouldn't hold, and a clip broke).

I believe the Black Diamond Lighthouse did so well because of the location of the midpole guyouts – imagine a Scarp 2 with guyout points at ~quarter points along the crossing poles. I think having the crossing poles on the inside of the fly (see Franco's modifications), with additional crossing pole mid-guyouts on the outside of the fly would result in a MUCH sturdier tent. However, it'd be also more difficult to setup.

>>>Why weren't the Scarp tents guyed out at the midpole points in both of these cases?

Sheeesh! It was dark and cold and there was a storm raging. I was warm and dry ( albeit mostly sleepless). I sure as heck was not venturing out into the mirk if I didn't have to. Yes, I should have had the tie downs set up before the storm, but I was hoping for the best. As you do in the darkest part of the night.

The point is the Scarp handled the adverse conditions very well. Its robustness was proven that night. For its weight and its value, I reckon the Scarp is very hard to beat.

Last summer I hiked with Scarp 1 in northernmost Norway (Europe) that is treeless terrain and prone to high winds. One night was so windy that it was difficult to stand on my own two feet. The Scarp 1 handled the wind quite good, but as it was my first experience on that kind of wind my sleeping was not that good.

I ordered the Scarp with double fastening loops on both sides of the pole sleeve, because I was aware that I might be faced high winds during my hike. So, both sides of the pole were fastened with quite long lines. In addition, I replaced the original short end lines with threefold longer lines for lower angle that increase solidity of the stakes. I also used V shaped stakes instead of original tubular stakes. I dropped large rocks upon each stake. I think that without above mentioned arrangements the Scarp likely would have collapsed.

One option that I have considered is to use stronger 10 mm pole instead of the original pole if presumable conditions may be windy.

Hi Andrew

Great photo! Where was that? I can't recognise it – but that is hardly surprising!

Cheers

Does anyone know what windspeed is usually necessary to knock the average adult over onto his side?

Can anyone tell me what similar tents are known to handle the wind well?

I got a Brunton weather meter recently and it gives a value on the Beaufort Scale. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaufort_scale

It says "Progress on foot is seriously impeded" for level 8 Gale Force which is gives as 62 – 74km/h.

Brian,

Bummer on the lost of the tent. I have used my Scarp 1 in winds estimated at 65 mph, with good results, and this was on deep snow. With snow pegs and the crossing pole guy lines it was secure. The tent was nice a taunt. The only "issue" I had was the material would actually "sing" in gusts. The material would vibrate and create a noise that woke me up in the night. Losing a tent stake in wind is not a failure of the tent.

I do not know what wind speed would limit the tent, but as with all tents, proper set-up and secure pegs and guys are critical.

Gday Roger,

>>>Great photo! Where was that?

The photo was taken near Whites River Hut. We spent a few days up on the Rolling Ground and exploring around Dicky Cooper Bogong.

A great time in a magic place.

Hi Andrew

Gotcha! Facing down the valley. Windy spot out there.

This is same place, facing up the valley. Right now the hut is recovering from a careless white gas user – it got sort of burnt down. But it is being rebuilt. It may, or may not, be ready for this winter.

Cheers

Roger, somewhat unrelated, but do you put the side or end of a tunnel tent like yours into the wind?

Hi Eugene

>Roger, … do you put the side or end of a tunnel tent like yours into the wind?

I always try VERY HARD to put the end of the tent into the wind. A tunnel tent is extremely robust in that position, FAR more so than any other tent. That's half of what the design is all about.

There will be a technical series on tunnel tents some time in the future – this year if at all possible.

Cheers

I had my TT Moment at the treeline at 11,000 ft. at a pass in Colorado's Indian Peaks range. I had it guyed out and in 35-45 mph constant winds it was fine. (no crossing pole on that trip)

Now I always cary the guylines with pre-tied clps and mini line tensioners like the ones that come on Tarptents. That way I can duck outside and quickly clip them in and stake them out if a windstorm pops up.

Also I altered the tent and cut the crossing pole down a bit so It passed INSIDE the Moment for much better canopy support and still make it a freestanding tent.

You cut down the crossing pole? Is it as simple putting it inside?

Hi folks,

Thanks all for the replies, I am so looking forward to giving the Scarp a test.

Would doubling up the centre pole add strength to the Tent?

Cheers