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Windshell + rain jacket or just rain jacket?


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Viewing 19 posts - 26 through 44 (of 44 total)
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  • #1744134
    Steven McAllister
    BPL Member

    @brooklynkayak

    Locale: Arizona, US

    Good points Brian.

    Things that made me move from a softshell to windshirt are, the flexibility and the fact that a windshrt combined with thin inner layer, dries faster than a softshell, or any other jacket for that matter.

    #1744145
    James holden
    BPL Member

    @bearbreeder-2

    you are simply arguing what works for you and taking it to assume its the best

    lets make it clear … i DO use a wndshirt when the occasion warrants .. and i DO use a rain jacket .. and i DO use a R1 style fleece

    if there is so much wind that i need "wind protection" then i use my windshirt or my rain jacket … period

    however when climbing or on approach and im humping uphill i dont often wear my windshirt (or my rain jacket) … simply my R1 … the wind keeps me cool as long as its not raging hurricane … even with a windshirt on i easily overheat … not to mention it gets torn up by the hand/fist jams, chimneys and offwidths …

    the other fallacy is assuming that a "windshirt" is the end all … when there are PLENTY of windshirts that dont breath too well … my dead bird celeris wind vest is extremely breathable … my marmot trail wind, no more than an event or windstopper jacket …

    there are plenty of people on this site and in the rest of the world that dont use windshirts … they can be useful, yes … but you DONT need em

    to assume that what works best for you is also the best for others is pure arrogance

    #1744150
    Brian Lindahl
    BPL Member

    @lindahlb

    Locale: Colorado Rockies

    > antagonistic fluff
    Mind toning it down a bit? I never said anything about needing one, nor that it was the best option for everyone. I've just said it's about the most useful item I own, and most people I know consider it or a softshell as their most useful layer. As they say around here, hike your own hike.

    I find my windshirt very useful when climbing. Are you not using your windshirt when climbing due to durability reasons? I don't really do a lot of crack climbing in the mountains out here, so I don't run into enough off-widths and chimneys for durability to be a concern (jams aren't a problem – roll up your sleeves). Note that I'm usually alpine climbing and not doing the more typical wall climbing. I'd agree that windshirts aren't as usable in wall climbing.

    And yes, when moving as fast as I can uphill, I overheat in moderate tempeartures in a windshirt too. I'm wearing my baselayer during those times. However, I can't recall an occassion where a windshirt was too warm, yet a baselayer wasn't warm enough, and wishing I had a fleece instead. However, before the windshirt, when all I had was a fleece and a rain jacket, I'd often wish I had something to cut the wind, but something more breathable than a rain jacket.

    > when there are PLENTY of windshirts that dont breath too well

    Very true. Good documentation exists in these forums as to which windshirts do breath well.

    Oh, and windshirts are amazing when canyoneering. Because they dry so fast, I can keep it outside of my dry bag, easily accessible. When we're moving through an open area where I don't have to worry about ripping it, I can toss on my windshirt (soaking wet), and be instantly warm, and I'll be completely dry in a few minutes, even after a long swim. I also packed a puffy layer in my drysack, and the windshirt was critical as a loaner piece for keeping a partner, who had forgotten his jacket, warm.

    #1744161
    James holden
    BPL Member

    @bearbreeder-2

    lets just be absolutely clear … i do advocate the use of windshirts in the right conditions, notably somewhere not too wet, where you wont be bushwhacking or climbing rough stone in it, and its windier than a typhoon

    however if i were to pick one piece id bring on every trip without being totally clear on the possibility of rain … it would be a rain shell … period

    it is not hard to use a rain jacket as a windshirt substitute, hopefully one of the more breathable ones … simply wear little under it to stay cool, and ventilate it before you get sweaty … people underuse their zippers from what i can see, if you are sweating, dont keep buttoned up!!!

    moderate winds is NOT a bad thing .. i often see sweaty people climbing or hiking all buttoned up in windshirts/softsheels/rain jackets … when i ask why, they say "oh its windy" … use the wind just like you would use ice or a cold drink to cool you down … the cooler you are the less you sweat, the less water you waste, the better your decision making

    a windshirt is a tool, nothing more … appropriate in some circumstances, not as much as others

    one thing i personally dont like about internet forums in general is how there tends to be an implications that you MUST have some piece of gear, ,,,

    #1744185
    Mike M
    BPL Member

    @mtwarden

    Locale: Montana

    not mentioned, but a windshirt is a nice layer for bug protection when it's warm as well- kind of the jackknife of garments imo :)

    if you have a windshirt that doesn't breathe well, best to get a new one

    if forced to choose one garment I'd agree w/ eric that a breathable rain jacket would be a better choice in most areas, but can't think of a scenario (short of a reality show) where you would be forced into that choice

    light windshirt + light rain jacket = win:win in most cases

    #1744235
    Richard Fischel
    BPL Member

    @ricko

    "however if i were to pick one piece id bring on every trip without being totally clear on the possibility of rain … it would be a rain shell … period"

    if i have one item of gear that i always try to leave at home it's my hard shell…period

    and i have a really nice eVent hard shell with pit zips.

    my trusty wind shirt will always be close at hand. nothing fleece except a polar stretch hoodie and maybe an old patagonia vest that has a windstopper front. my insulation which really only comes into play when i'm stopped is typically something filled with primaloft. with something primaloft to throw on i can always bake any damp layer i have dry.

    if i'm moving in the rain the heat i'm putting off will typically drive off the external moisture with the vapor moving out thru the wind shirt. i can't explain the physics, but that's my experience.

    moving fast and light is always a matter of compromise. one of my compromises is leaving the hard shell at home most of the time. it's role in my kit is too limited compared to the versatility of my beloved wind shirt.

    #1744244
    James holden
    BPL Member

    @bearbreeder-2

    theres no way in hell id leave my hardshell at home in the shoulder seasons of the PNW

    now would i suggest it to anyone here myself

    but thats just me ..

    #1744247
    Gabe Joyes
    Member

    @gabe_joyes

    Locale: Lander, WY

    Here is another vote for rain jacket and wind shirt. Personally, I hate rain jackets and try to only wear them when it is really rainy, really cold, or really really windy. I wear my houdini for everything else, but up high I feel like I need a good rain jacket to avoid a freezing cold disaster.

    #1744249
    Steven Paris
    BPL Member

    @saparisor

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    Can't we all just get along?

    "Now, the world don't move to the beat of just one drum,
    What might be right for you, may not be right for some.
    A man is born, he's a man of means.
    Then along come two, they got nothing but their jeans.

    But they got, Diff'rent Strokes.
    It takes, Diff'rent Strokes.
    It takes, Diff'rent Strokes to move the world.

    Everybody's got a special kind of story
    Everybody finds a way to shine,
    It don't matter that you got not alot
    So what,
    They'll have theirs, and you'll have yours, and I'll have mine.
    And together we'll be fine….

    Because it takes, Diff'rent Strokes to move the world.
    Yes it does.
    It takes, Diff'rent Strokes to move the world."

    #1744253
    Richard Fischel
    BPL Member

    @ricko

    "theres no way in hell id leave my hardshell at home in the shoulder seasons of the PNW

    now would i suggest it to anyone here myself

    but thats just me .."

    over the last few years of heading to various summits in the cascades in may and june i haven't carried my had shell and never missed it. then again, that's me and not you. and as for suggesting what others do, i recommend they free themselves from the dogma of the hard shell mafia (insert wink here)

    #1744255
    James holden
    BPL Member

    @bearbreeder-2

    lol .. i think there is more a a windshirt mafia going around BPL …

    everyone is free to do as they choose … the only correct answer is what works for you …

    #1744258
    Eric Blumensaadt
    BPL Member

    @danepacker

    Locale: Mojave Desert

    REI's Kimtah light eVent rain park can easily double as a wind "shirt" due to its excellent breathability. $229. regular price. 20% off sales for REI members puts it at under $200.

    Lightweight backpacking is about "multiple use" items as an important way of reducing weight.

    For the CT this July my "wind shirt" is my daily nylon ".511" brand shirt of 100% nylon in a tighter weave and heavier denier than, say, a light REI Sahara polyester shirt. So that's my "multiple use" shirt until it gets cold and/or VERY windy, when I put on a PacLite parka. (But I really "need" that eVent parka… :o)

    #1744262
    Stuart Allie
    Member

    @stuart-allie

    Locale: Australia

    Richard wrote: "… and i have a really nice eVent hard shell with pit zips. "

    Not to derail the thread… but do you mind if I ask what brand/model your hard shell is? I'd love to get an eVent jacket with pit zips but they seem to be awfully thin on the ground now.

    Cheers
    Stuart

    #1744274
    Richard Fischel
    BPL Member

    @ricko

    it's a wild things *flume*. call the retail store in new hampshire and ask if they have one in your size and ask if they are on sale. if they aren't on sale ask if they are going on sale any time soon. they were selling them for $150 not too long ago. their web site has been pretty much useless for the last few years, but the girls in the retail store are the best. they are sized to layer over other garments so if you don't want to be able to throw it over several layers go down a size.

    it's a great jacket for standing around in the rain.

    #1744282
    Stuart Allie
    Member

    @stuart-allie

    Locale: Australia

    Thanks Richard!

    #1744285
    Randy Martin
    BPL Member

    @randalmartin

    Locale: Colorado

    I think a lot of this is very dependent on the climate you are hiking in. Windshirts are very appropriate in the Alpine and dryer climates like the Intermountain West where I live. Rain Jackets would seem more appropriate in the PNW and East where Rain is much more frequent and it takes longer to dry out due to the high relative humidity.

    There are also getting to be some really lightweight rain jacket options out there that really blur the lines between a wind shirt and rain jacket.

    #1744389
    John S.
    BPL Member

    @jshann

    I think it depends only on preferences. I'll take both on all trips unless it's a warm weather trip with no expected rain in nonmountainous terrain.

    #1744491
    J Boro
    Member

    @jbend

    Locale: PNW

    I've been lurking on the board gleaning insights for my summertime kit and figured I'd as might as well share…

    For me, I generally ditch the windshirt AND baselayer in favor of the Rab Boreas. I find that it wicks, dries fast, adds a little warmth, and gives adequate wind protection in most conditions.

    That being said, I don't ever head above treeline without a hardshell with pit zips (currently the Arc Alpha SL). If the wind really kicks up I open up the pit zips and am usually pretty comfortable.

    #1744639
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    " i recommend they free themselves from the dogma of the hard shell mafia (insert wink here)"

    Up here in the PNW, you don't need a hard shell until you need it. I guess it all depends on your tolerance for discomfort and being cold and wet. One thing on a day hike, quite another on a multi day climb especially in difficult terrain, a situation not totally unknown in the Cascades. ;)

Viewing 19 posts - 26 through 44 (of 44 total)
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