Time to come clean

Looks good Lance.

I could learn more from you than vice versa, but

the pack, quilt, and tent are a bit heavy?

Let's see some pictures of your MYOG stuff

Let's see some pictures of your MYOG stuff

Here's one of the tent and quilt.

Very nice looking tent

BACKPACK – at 36.6 ounces, have you taken the scissor to this thing and trimmed off any extranious stuff?

PACK COVER – NIX and replace with a truly waterproofing system, a 2.2 oz COMPACTOR bag.

If your pack is lined with a trash COMPACTOR bag, you should be able to take your pack to a lake, push it under water and stand on it! Everything in the backpack will stay PERFECTLY DRY! That won't work with a "pack cover"

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Your list includes:
DRY BAG DRY BAG LINER DRY BAG STUFF SACK STUFF SACK STUFF SACK FOOD SACK FOOD SACK LINER FOOD SACK SEAL

Wow, you have a LOT of stuff sacks and dry bags! You could reduce that easily.

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GROUND CLOTH – NIX this, your tent as a floor!

SIT SHEET – What is a "sit sheet" ???

LIGHTER – you list .71 oz, is this a mini-bic, or the standard size?

AQUAMIRA – repackage in a smaller set of vessles.

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Your list includes:
WATER BOTTLES – 2L platy 2L platy 1L platy 20 oz vit. water bottle

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Wow! THat's a LOT of water copasity. Is this really needed? I think this is over kill for anything but the Mojave!

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TP – easily NIXed!

WET WIPES – Easily NIXed, you already have hand sanitizer and soap.

P BOTTLE – I've worked with a lot of mountaineering partners, and we all take a pee bottle in the mountians when camping in a tent in cold weather. You could get along withouut it in pleasant seasons.

CRAMPONS – Almost all your mountain travel should be able to be done without crampons.

You have 19 ounces of electronics! THat is a LOT! You should pare that down as low as you can!

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You wrote:
Trade out tent and ground sheet for myog tarp and bivy depending on mosquito
forecast.

I would love to see your TARP design! Your tent looks sweeeet!

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You wrote:
Delete spare boxer briefs.

Nix any spare. You can always wash the set you are waering if need be. I've found the "extra" underwear to be totally un-needed.

I have a couple of questions regarding pack liners. In general, which gear do you pack inside the liner and which gear gets packed outside the liner?

How do you handle damp, wet, muddy, or smelly cloths? If you put them inside the pack liner, how do you keep your quilt and dry cloths ‘clean’ and dry? If you put them outside the pack liner, how do you keep them from becoming even wetter? Same question for a wet and dirty tent?

I looked at your gear list for insight and inspiration, and found that we’re really not too different in the number of sacks and bags.

I just need to lighten up each of mine.

Mike C	Lance M
Pack Liner	Dry Bag w/ liner – Quilt & Down Jacket
–	Dry Bag – Clothing
Stuff Sack – Food	Stuff Sack w/ OP liner – Food
Stuff Sack – Cook Gear	Stuff Sack – Cook Gear & ‘Dinky Stuff’
Tyvek Envelope – Stakes	Stuff Sack – Stakes
–	Stuff Sack – Tent
Zippered pack pocket	–
Ziploc – Dinky Stuff	Ziploc – Oral & contacts
Ziploc – Maps	Ziploc – Maps
Ziploc – FAK	Ziploc – FAK & Repair
Ziploc – Repair	Ziploc – Electronics

AQUAMIRA – repackage in a smaller set of vessels

During several week or several month long treks, if you send yourself regular supplies of repackaged Aquamira in your food drops, what do you do with the empty containers? It cost more to mail them back than they’re worth, it’s hard to just throw them away, and you certainly don’t want to carry them.

GROUND CLOTH – NIX this, your tent as a floor!

I cowboy camp when I can. Because I'm not using a bivy, I have the ground cloth.

What is a "sit sheet" ???

Use it to sit/lie on during breaks, pack explosions in camp, door mat at tent, shower mat in public showers, quick rain cover, etc. I'm considering switching back to a larger Tyvek ground cloth rather than separate polycro ground cloth and Tyvek ‘sit sheet’.

Lance said: How do you handle damp, wet, muddy, or smelly cloths?

My answer: Wear em.

this will dry them, and allow mud to wash off.
do you change because you stink? not to be trite- get used to it. smell schmell

Would you consider making me one of those?

R S: This is the fourth tent I’ve made and the last two took fifteen hours each. Sorry, but for now I’ll pass on making another. If you have some sewing skills, and are interested in making your own, send me a PM.

-Lance

Jeff: Thanks for responding.

Aside from odor, I was thinking more about keeping my down gear clean and dry to protect its’ long and short term performance and useful life.

Restating the original questions:

Which gear goes inside the pack liner and which gear goes outside?

How do you handle damp or dirty gear and clothing when using a pack liner? If you put it inside the pack liner, how do you keep your down gear ‘clean’ and dry? If you put damp gear outside the pack liner, how do you keep that gear from becoming even wetter?

Thanks again.

I don't use a pack liner, but when I did, the only thing I felt I HAD to keep in it was my quilt, my camp clothes if appropriate (down jacket, generally) and sleep clothes/change of clothes. Dirty and wet gear went either in the pack but on top of the close liner and either in its own stuff sack or just packed on top, or it went in one of the outside mesh pockets (especially shelter). I didn't care it the shelter got wetter (though all of my shelters are cuben so they don't 'hold' water and get heavier, inner nets went inside the pack).

I think, unless you're in a downpour for hours on end, most packs will keep most water out, for the most part (lots of mosts in that sentence!), so wet items packed inside the pack but outside of the pack liner won't get wetter (wring them out as much as possible, of course, before packing them). There's always stuff you don't care about getting wet, and these things can go outside in the mesh, or outside of the liner but in the pack as well.

FWIW.

Below are 3 cartoons showing how to waterproof gear with ONE single plastic bag.

I do NOT use a pack cover. They don’t actually cover the entire pack so it doesn’t truly protect the contents from rain. This is a waterproofing for absolutely everything. I like to waterproof my gear so everything will stay perfectly dry even if my pack falls in a river and floats downstream, taking me all day to catch it again. I line my backpack with ONE trash compactor bag.

Hefty Trash Compactor Bags
18 Gal. (68 L) Size
25 3/4” x 35” / 2.5 Mil. thick
Less than a buck per bag.

These are heavy gage white plastic bags designed for kitchen trash compactors. I have never found anything better or lighter. They are white, so it's easy to find stuff deep in the bag. Plus, they are tough enough to last for multiple trips.

They weigh 2.2 ounces, and they are plenty big to line the entirety of my backpack. There is enough extra left over on top to twirl around into a snout (lovingly called the elephant’s trunk) and this gets tucked snugly into the side of the pack (pointing downward) for absolute waterproofing. I’m very careful not to poke holes in this bag, (see tip <<< 26 > Care of the equipment>>>) I have no redundancy.

If the tarp is wet in the morning, I stuff it in the bottom of my backpack FIRST and then put the compactor bag on top. So, wet and dry stuff are separated and everything stays dry INSIDE the compactor bag.

I put my rain gear on top, outside the compactor bag, because if it rains, I'll end up wearing it. Simple!

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Reply to Lance M:
__________________________

Funny to see the side-by-side stuff-sack chart, but, the data shows that I actually have two fewer sacks for packing!

GROUND CLOTH

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I said NIX because your tent has a floor on it, so no need for a ground cloth.

SIT SHEET – I suspect if you delete it, you'll do just fine. I have camped a LOT in very wet weather (in the north cascades) and I've never used anything like this, and I have never felt the need.

AQUA-MIRA

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I use a system that is different than what is posted on the AQUAMIRA packaging, so I am sort of out side the bounds of any kind of legal liability. But, I feel strongly that MOST of the water in the backcountry is VERY clean, and that the directions for use are set-up to treat a base line of lousy water.

(more on this soon, and it's in my book)

Thank you everyone.

-Lance

Mike, your drawings remind me of MAD magazine cartoons. I love them thanks for the info

I want my shelter (wet or dry) on top or in an outside pocket (mine goes in one of the side pockets to balance my water bottle on the other side). I certainly don't want to have to unload my entire pack in the midst of pouring rain to get my shelter up!