Fire starter idea

If you take the top 1 inch of a road / safety flare and cut it off, that’s exactly what you get. You could dip the whole thing in wax for waterproofing or put it in a 35mm film canister (anyone still using those?). Your right, this works very well, but has very caustic smoke while it burns, so you want to avoid having to lean over the fire to build it as the flair burns.

Dale,

Ya thinking of something like this? (click on “Survival Necklace” in the menu on the left and then scroll down about 3/4 of the way thru the page to the details about the “Four-Finger-Fire-Starter”

Since a lot of the people here are DIY types, I can give you a few tips about firestarters for wet rainy weather (for starting campfires).

The first method was (I guess still is) in the BSA handbook. You take four or five sheets of newspaper, roll it up real tight and tie it off with heavy thread, about four inches apart. Then you cut the rolled up newspaper into pieces…each one four inches long.

Then you melt a block of parafin wax in a # 10 tin can and drop each four inch length of rolled up newspaper into the melted wax. Let it sit there a minute or two and soak up the wax.

Remove and place on dry newspaper and let cool down and dry completely.

You light one and it will give you a massive flame for about ten minutes. Ive used them plenty of times on past backpacking trips. They are also waterproof, since they are so wax soaked.

The second method involves harvesting pine “fatwood.” If you look hard, sometimes you can find a big knot in a dead pine limb. Usually that is a small piece of wood saturated with pine resin. Cut it down with a saw or ax and cut it open…smells like turpentine. It will burn wet. Carry some with you on a trip as a wet weather firestarter.

The other, more reliable way to get pine “fatwood” is to find a fallen down pine tree, find its old stump and dig it up. Dig down underneath the pine stump and locate the tap root that pine trees have that goes straight down.

After the stump has been dead a long time, that tap root will look all rotted and useless at first. Dont be deceived. Use a hatchet or machete or bowie type knife and cut off the surrounding dead useless wood. Usually underneath the decomposed tap root you will find some good fatwood, that smells like turpentine and will burn very hot even when wet.

Of course, do this ahead of time of your trip.

Vlad

I came up with one really simple and cheap MYOG fire starter. See http://survivalprimer.com/TF_FIRE_BUG_FIRE_STARTER.txt

The author describes making a self-igniting fire starter by bundling a dozen strike-anywhere matches with waxed floss and then waterproofing the bundle with melted parafin wax. The matches could be trimmed to fit in a 35mm film can and fit my needs.

I could see modifying this a bit with a core of fat wood, Maya Stick, or even a chunk of Esbit fuel. Some caution would be needed when experimenting with combining hot parafin wax and other chemicals.

The paper soaked in paraffin wax works quite well. I do this all the time (with paper towel rather than newspapaer), and it takes only a tiny piece to get a fire started.

I’ve recently become interested in the idea of carrying a handheld Ikaros flare, though, since this could double as both a more foolproof emergency fire starter, and a bear deterrent (eliminating the need to carry pepper spray)
See this article:
http://kenai.fws.gov/overview/notebook/2006/nov/03nov2006.htm

-Erin
http://www.aktrekking.com/trips.html

Erin,
Your link is not working. There appears to be an extra “http//”. The flare is a great idea that, as I recall, hasn’t been discussed much on these forums. How easy are they to light when you are under pressure? I just read the article. You just pull a string to light. Maybe too easy to light? At 8 oz this is well worth considering. Carrying different deterrents within a group makes a lot of sense. The multi-use aspect of the flare is a big plus.

Thanks – I think the link is fixed now.

I haven’t yet managed to get a hold of one of these, so I can’t say for sure, but Ed Berg (a guy I know who wrote the article) says that it’s an instant string-pull, rather than a striking sort of flare.
I’ll see if I can hunt one down in a marine supply store here to check it out myself.
The reason I haven’t used flares in the past is that most are too slow, that’s why I’m excited about the potential of this one.

One advantage in the bear-deterrent department is that a flare can be activated before a bear actually charges, as it’s sizing you up.
Of course, sometimes a bear comes too fast for any sort of deterrence…

Anyway, I’ll definitely hunt one of these things down. If they’re as easy as seems, they might be a great multiple-use piece of gear.

-Erin
http://www.aktrekking.com/trips.html

Erin, Erik, and others here, before you run out and start buying flares I’d like to add this caveat.

If this practice becomes prevelant there will be many more ‘accidental’ forest fires caused by ‘frightened’ noobie backpackers who read websites like this; which gives them just enough info to be dangerous to themselves and others around them. The ones that drop these handheld flares to the ground when a bear does start towards them are my intial concern. My second concern will be those who go buy flare guns, 12ga or pull string/chain types, and start actually firing at bears, causing the following comments.

If you truly think that a small flare fired off at a bear that is considering you as dinner, or a threat, is going to stop it, you’re highly mistaken.

At best you’re attempting to aim a small hot projectile at a moving target. Are you going to carry this in your hand all day? Probably not. Is it safe to strap it onto your pack strap, not if you don’t want serious burns if it gets snagged in the brush.

Hunters with guns firing at bears have missed and been killed by the then attacking bear. After you miss with the first one, you now have adrenalized the bear, who may not have intended to charge you, but since you’re being aggressive with it (in it’s territory) I’m sure it’ll oblige and bring it on.

I can see it now, a bunch of Timothy Treadwell wannabes/noobies, that want to ‘go experience the bears in their natural habitat, firing wantonly at every bear they encounter’. Much to our chagrin this will only desensitize the bears to this ‘threat’ and endanger backpackers even more.

I have plenty of past experience using flares from my USCG days. IMO flares are not ‘bear deterrent’ in the same manner as bear spray. They are not a lightweight, nor effective, defense against a predator.

After you fire your first flare, then what? Are you so stotic that you’ll be able to stand there within range of a couple hundred pound predator trying to get another flare out, and focus enough to aim again? Doubt it, most folks when confronted with crime within society fall victim, even when armed.

Have you ever gone hunting? Bear fur is tough, a flare is going to bounce off and start a fire within minutes. Do you know what happens when you fire a flare at a solid object? It bounces off at close enough range, negating any real effect or stopping power.

This is just a head’s up to the idea that IMO this is not the path for backpackers to travel down. It’s not for the reasons I point out above; but also because you’re never going to be able to pack them before leaving for the airport.

I addressed your names because your two posts were about this, not because I’m singling you out here.

I worked seasonally for NFWS and underwent the training detailed in their article. I also stated my reservations about the ‘flare project’ with regard to bears; but hey I’m a Big Cat man and so what do I know about bears.

The string pull is a noe feature. This type of flare burns for one minute and is very bright– 15,000 candela. Orion is a brand that is more available in the US. This type of flare is pretty heavy– around 8oz and they cost $19 each. If you set one off at night, don’t plan on being able to see right after the flare goes out!

You can get smaller stiker-type ignition flares for 3/$19. They are lighter and burn for three minutes and are 700 candela.

Consumer grade road flares are the cheapest. They product 70 candela (an average flashlight is 5 candela). The ones I have are 6oz each and burn for 15 minutes. Weight aside, they are great fire starters– you can get the wettest wood burning with one. If going on costal hikes with a group, I would have a couple people bring one.

Gene,
I agree, if it leaves your person, it’s not much good, and can be a fire hazard. In the face of a charging bear this flare would seem to be a good defensive weapon. Throwing it at the bear is not what I would do. I don’t view it as a replacement for bear spray, but as another potential tool. Take as many tools as you feel you need. It is interesting that the Hallo Bay Wilderness camp bans bear spray. I would like to understand their logic. This topic may deserve it’s own thread.

Dale, great info on the brightness of flares and their burn time!

That’s an interesting article, I’ve passed it on to a friend who’s back door is a short walk from Glacier NP and who can speak from experience about grizzly charges. I’ll be interested in his comments.

But regarding If they’re as easy as seems, they might be a great multiple-use piece of gear.

This being a consummable item, I think it needs to be considered a single use item. Used for fire starting or bear deterrent, whichever need comes first.

Dale – thanks for the info on different flare types.

Gene – I don’t think anyone was advocating throwing the flare at the bear. And the flare we’re talking about is a handheld (not firing anything) kind. The idea, rather, would be to hold the flare out in front of you, to make the bear less likely to charge.

Would it work in every instance? Of course not. Is it safer to have multiple redundant methods of deterrence (e.g. common sense + flare + bear spray)? Of course. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t a potentially useful tool.

Jim – yep it’s definitely consumable (as is pepper spray, and any kind of firestarter). But since the likelihood of needing either function is low, the liklihood of needing both on the same trip is even lower. And if you have multiple people on the trip, all carrying one, I think the redundancy would be sufficient to satisfy me, anyway.

Gene, I suggest you read Erins link. The flares are NOT the shooting type which you discussed. I am not trying to discount your considerable experience in this area, just saying its a different type of device.

I have used dozens of flares and smoke pots, and handguns of many types. Having known someone who was accidentaly shot. I’d rather have some newbie in my group waving a flare than fumbling with a .44.
Additionaly, it is appealing to have a dual use device which emits smoke for SAR; having actually used that once in the military I know it is very useful for the pilot on scene.

I don’t want to drag this out much longer so responses to this will get the last word … promise.

It isn’t exactly that it’s consumable that disqualifies a flare as dual use in my mind. It is that one use consumes all of it. A counter example … using Purell as a fire starter leaves some to use as a hand cleaner afterwards (unless you planned the amount needed for hand cleaner to the last drop) … so I might accept that as dual use. Although, really, in my mind dual use means that the same lb/ounce/gram of weight fills two needs (e.g. trekking poles as tarp poles)

We all have our threshold for risk and I guess mine tells me that if the risk is enough to start the hike with bear deterrent then the deterrent should still be there to use if I encounter a bear between myself and my car in the last 50 yds of the hike. For myself, to operate otherwise means I’m carrying a paceblo.

HYOH!

” came up with one really simple and cheap MYOG fire starter. See http://survivalprimer.com/TF_FIRE_BUG_FIRE_STARTER.txt

The author describes making a self-igniting fire starter by bundling a dozen strike-anywhere matches with waxed floss and then waterproofing the bundle with melted parafin wax. The matches could be trimmed to fit in a 35mm film can and fit my needs.”

I made some of these match bundles this weekend and they work okay. I rimmed the matches to fit in a 35mm film can before bundling them up and dipping them in wax.

Do use waxed floss. My attempts to use unwaxed floss rivaled Lucille Ball in the chocolate factory– it is slippery stuff.

I took an Esbit tab and sliced it in thirds and wrapped matches round it and dipped the assembly in wax. Performance-wise, it worked just like 1/3 and Esbit tab and a bunch of matches :) It did fit into a 35mm film can and I ladled in a bit of wax to hold it in the can.

I tried both types in the bck yard, starting them in 40F and rainy weather with by striking them on a small rock. A couple strikes to knock the wax off and I had a good flame. Next trick is to soak one good and see how it does.

I’m all for using any tool available to get a fire started in an emergency– hnd sanitizer, fuel tabs, matches, butane lighter and firestick.

I did do the bow and drill excercise in Scouts — 40 years ago. The complexity of that operation still convinces me to have plenty of options. If I need a fire, it is because a whole bunch of things have gone wrong and I doubt if I would be able to find a nice dry slab and fashion it and a couple sticks into the proper tools to get a fire going. If I need a fire, most of my gear is gone and I am wet and/or cold. My bet is that I would be shaking hard enough to make starting a fire with proper tools a chellenge, let alone a paleolithic carpentry session in the woods!

I’d still like to see an incendiary product the size of a film can and as easy to start as a road flare. A burn time of 5 minutes seems reasonable. I’ll have to look at a road flare and see about getting a good seal on the cut end– duct tape?