Floorless Shelters and Creepie Crawlies

[Ultra Magnus]

Hey- Just wondering how those of you who sleep in floorless shelters w/o a bug bivy deal with creepie crawlies? I live in the desert, so mosquitoes aren't a problem- but what about spiders, scorpions, beetles, ants, centipedes, etc…, etc…? It's amazing to me that whenever you stop and stare at the ground for a few mins, how much life there is crawling around on every square foot of ground…

I'm trying to get my kids more into doing back country type stuff, but w/o breaking the bank. Light weight 4 person tents cost an arm and a leg and still aren't that light, so I'm looking to diy projects and many people lean towards floorless 'mid's and tipis for group settings…

I'm making myself a meteor bivy for solo outings, but dunno what to do for the kids (10, 8, and 6). Making each of them their own bivy sounds like a lot of work, and the cost starts going up for all the materials, plus I don't know how in-to it they would be.

Thanks,
BM

[Bob Gross]

When you think about the creepie crawlies, just think of them as another protein resource.

–B.G.–

[Evan McCarthy]

Sleep with your mouth open for most efficient method. The creepie crawlies gravitate toward warm, dark places.

[BlackHatGuy]

"The creepie crawlies gravitate toward warm, dark places."

Which is why they stay away from my heart — that's a very cold, dark place…..

To the OP, most people either just deal with it and don't let it bother them, or they use enclosed shelters. A bug net isn't that expensive. Perhaps something like the MLD Trailstar with the BearPaw Pentanet inner (or, more accurately, under).

[Walter Carrington]

It wouldn't be that hard to make your own big bug tent for everyone. Make it with a bathtub floor of silnylon and netting for the top, designed to fit in your shelter.

[John G]

Order the Pyramid with 18" of mesh sown around the perimeter. Then, set it up with 9" of mesh lying on the ground – under your ground cloth. The overlap should discourage almost all the creep crawlys if you put your pads or packs on top of the overlap to seal the two together.

Alternatively, you could have the ground cloth sown to the mesh, and have a single skin pyramid tent.

[Ultra Magnus]

"Alternatively, you could have the ground cloth sown to the mesh, and have a single skin pyramid tent."

I had the thought to do that, but I've read so many myog posts that recommend against putting a floor in a pyramid shelter. I guess the big advantage of going floorless is being able to cook inside or have a wood stove inside for a heated shelter.

BM

[Jerry Adams]

I don't think a wood fire inside a nylon tent would be a good idea. It would melt and burn up and you'de be stuck inside with melting nylon all over you and horrible third degree burns.

You could very carefully use a canister or alcohol stove.

[Dale Wambaugh]

One of the GoLite Shangri-La tipis with an inner nest would do the trick. I'll bet the kids would get a kick out of that kind of tent.

Somebody has a 4-person for sale on Gear Swap: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/forum_thread/48014/index.html?skip_to_post=408238#408238

[Ed Tyanich]

Jerry,

That must be news to the owners of thousands of Kifaru, Ti-Goat and Go-Lite Shangri-La shelters that people use wood stoves in.

[John G]

I like floorless shelters and a seperate ground cloth myself. But it's because it's for the convenience. ie: It's often wet where I live, and I can take my rain gear and my muddy shoes off while out of the rain, without getting the floor all wet, or pressing up against the vestibule canopy (and getting all wet from the condensation). I also like to be able to throw the ground cloth into the washing machine when I get back home :)

For family camping with my wife and kids, their fear of creep crawlies easily out weighs the extra convenience we get in the rain.

For 2 people, I like a 10×12 tarp and mesh tent. It's heavy, but versitile. (ie: The tarp doubles as a dining fly).

For 3+ people, I think a pyramid is easier to get everyones sleeping area laid out nicely, and allows more room to move around.

[James Castleberry]

My kids wanted barrier against bugs. I second the Shangri-la option. Sierra Designs used to make the Origami 4, which had a floor option that could clip onto the pyramid, sort of creating a sloped bathtub floor effect that would make it hard for bugs to crawl in. Must not have caught on because they discontinued the Origami 4 and now just sell the 2 person. My kids didn't like having any open space for bugs to get in and I ended up getting a Shangri-la 4 nest to put inside the pyramid, which worked well and made them happy.

[Jerry Adams]

Ed,

You must mean a wood fire inside an aluminum or Ti stove or something.

For just a regular wood campfire, it doesn't seem like that would be good inside a tent.

[Steven Paris]

The Nemo Pentalite looks interesting, especially with the addition of the "Wedge" which has a floor but only one netting wall which somehow zips/attaches into the shelter. Total weight for both looks to be around 5 lbs, which isn't bad for a 4p shelter.

[Ed Tyanich]

Jerry,

Yes, I meant a wood stove, stainless or ti. Campfires won't do thats for sure.

[Sumi Wada]

Maybe kids take their cues from their parent(s); I'm not fazed by creepie-crawlies (and I'm the mom), and neither is my son. He was still in diapers when we camped under the stars for the first time and he was totally in awe of seeing all the stars (just like mom…) We're both still the same way and will always choose to sleep without a tent when we can.

The only things that really get to him are mosquitoes, so in mosquito country, we do carry at least the tent body or netting. We sleep without the fly as often as we can.

In the desert, canyon country, etc., we take a tarp but I don't think he's ever actually slept under one. He's good with just a ZLite and his sleeping bag.

[Al Nichols]

I've heard of folks using a long piece of cord/string saturated with bug juice. They just encircle their sleeping area with the cord. I guess the bugs don't like to crawl over the bug juice.

[Steofan M]

I used to worry about it but got tired of the weight of a tent and of losing sleep worrying about snakes, spiders, etc. Got really lucky last weekend and woke up surrounded by toads – who needs bug juice?!

[Kevin @ Seek Outside]

I prefer floorless, mainly for the freedom and flexibility with shoes, dogs cooking etc. In a floored tent you are always cleaning the floor and worrying about the floor anyway.

As for creepy crawlies, I have not had an issue, in fact I often see more bugs and spiders in my bedroom than the tent. I think the floor is generally a faux security, (my kids sleep floorless all the time). Think about it, I've seen more spiders in the house than in the tent. Mosquitos, will get in any tent when the door is open, but once you kill them after closing a door they are generally not an issue. Do you think that a full tent will stop any determined animal from getting at your stuff anyway ? No way. Snakes ? I don't like them, but they don't like me either, as long as you don't set up on snake holes you are good. In our tipi's we have a sod skirt, so I can always flip it outside and cover it with dirt to create a tight seal if I want and then vent the screen door.

The fear of a river in a floorless tent is overblown as well, I've had floored tents where water has come through the floor on several occasions. I've only had this happen once when floorless and it was my fault due to setting up in the "established area".

In dirty sandy areas such as many developed campsites, I prefer a bivy, Bathtub ground sheet, floor, or cot. If I'm car camping I take a cot then I have the advantages of floorless along with cheap hotel comfort. Dogs will get your stuff dirty on a floor, and the same with a bathtub ground sheet. A bivy or a cot will keep you pretty clean. Most backpacking in the NF, I can choose a nice spot.

Not much of an issue

Edit: Spelling

[HkNewman]

Why not use a lightweight groundcloth like 2mil plastic painters cloth a bit bigger than the bivy bottom?

[Jerry Adams]

"The fear of a river in a floorless tent is overblown as well, I've had floored tents where water has come through the floor on several occasions. I've only had this happen once when floorless and it was my fault due to setting up in the "established area".

+1

Bathtub floor

Fills up with water like a bathtub

Floorless – water drains away

[David Ure]

Never, ever had a PU coated bathtub floor leak. Only silnylon.

[Diplomatic Mike]

I would love to see someone backpacking without a bathtub floor of some kind, here in the Scottish Highlands. :)

Sometimes you have no choice but to pitch on a wet sponge.

[Brett Ayer]

I have learned over the years that there is no way for a child to enjoy themselves when they have to overcome too many unknowns at the same time.

If you have kids that don't want to deal with bugs, then don't make them, suck it up and find a tent.

I have seen it over and over again. I know one kid that refuses to go camping ever again because Dad did not want to waste batteries by keeping the light on all night. Now Dad never has to worry about that again.

What may seem like a minor thing to us, can actually be a major obstacle to a child.

The number one goal other than keeping them safe is making sure they have fun!

[Author]

Posts