Permethrin and tents

While we're on the topic…I now have to use a "drape" style sun hat which, other than it's dorkiness, I'm actually liking. The drape can be velcro-closed all the way to beneath my nose, if I want, on this hat. This alone could go a long way to protecting my neck, ears and face from mosquitoes(and of course the sun); but I'm tempted to treat the hat and drape with permethrin. I've treated my base layer shirt with the stuff with seemingly no ill-effects; I'm a bit worried about the chemical being so near my mouth and nose. Thoughts?

Permethrin is not a bug repellent. It is meant to be highly diluted, less than 1.2 of 1%.

I treat my cloths with Permethrin for Lyme disease prevention.
Permethrin takes a while to kill so a mosquito will still bite me through my clothing, but dies a few minutes later.

This is fine for Lyme disease prevention as ticks are slow and they have to be attached to you a long time before they can spread Lyme.

My wife and I watched a tick that was walking on her treated hiking pants. It took more than 5 minutes to die.

I would not even think of treating my shelter or sleeping gear with it.
I also wouldn't use Deet as it would probably ruin your gear.

"Permethrin is not a bug repellent. It is meant to be highly diluted, less than 1.2 of 1%."

You are correct. It is an insecticide but you are wrong about the dilution levels. Sawyer sells it for spraying clothes at 0.5% but it is stronger in Insect Shield clothing. The military levels are hard to nail down.

"I treat my cloths with Permethrin for Lyme disease prevention.
Permethrin takes a while to kill so a mosquito will still bite me through my clothing, but dies a few minutes later."

I have been using it for many years, starting with a shirt from ExOfficio for tick control. http://tinyurl.com/lrbbl

I have never seen a mosquito bite through or a tick even stay on it long enough to die. They drop off almost immediately in my experience.

"This is fine for Lyme disease prevention as ticks are slow and they have to be attached to you a long time before they can spread Lyme."

They only have to attach to be a problem as then they can be scratched and have their head torn off while still hooked up. I have a nephew with severe Lyme's and a friend that had an infected buried/torn tick that led to surgery. (In her bum. I tried to get her to show me in the interest of data collection but no go…)

"My wife and I watched a tick that was walking on her treated hiking pants. It took more than 5 minutes to die."

Yep, but it died, right? Did it bite? Mine never stay on that long.

"I would not even think of treating my shelter or sleeping gear with it.
I also wouldn't use Deet as it would probably ruin your gear."

Yep, DEET would ruin a tent. You noticed that this was an experiment due to discussion here, right? And I guess I would think about sleep gear if I slept in the open with only a sheet covering me. ;-) Otherwise I would have to agree with you.

The Deer Tick is be far the most dangerous animal on the Appalachian Trail.

As side note, last year I treated my clothes at a higher percentage, I’d guess approx 2 percent. My wife was very unhappy as our clothes had a insecticide smell even after several washings.

This year we went even less, I think approx 0.2 percent. This was recommended by a data sheet that they give farmers.

From our limited visual tests, the ticks die before they start to attempt to bite. They are very slow and tend to crawl for hours before the find a place that they like.

Of course it is hard to observe them, they are too small to see most of the time. My wife is a science teacher so carries a magnifying glass and once used the macro lens on her camera to video tape the tick as it crawled on her pants, became confused and then eventually died.

I have many friends in the area who have had Lyme disease. One girl had partial paralysis in her face that took a year to recover from. One friend, John Lurie a famous movie actor, musician, artist has become home bound from an extreme case of Lyme. He figures he had it for years before it was discovered and he received some permanent damage.

I got it real bad, didn’t know I had it as the bite was between my shoulder blades, so I never saw it until my whole back turned red. I was really sick at that point. Never want to get it again.

I haven't had mosquitos or black flies bite through my permethrin treated thin nylon shirt. They've bitten through the same shirt with no permethrin. This is in conditions that I'd characterize as low to moderately bad bugs in Massachusetts. There is no safety against the bugs in northern New England and Canada.

I might treat a ground cloth with permethrin to keep out crawling bugs. I'm currently wondering about treating my pack.

I use this insect shield cape hat and it works pretty good:
http://www.rei.com/product/708136/exofficio-insect-shield-cape-hat
Usually I wear it with the cape rolled up. When the bugs come out I wear it with the cape out but not buttoned. In worse conditions I button it. I don't think I'd want it covering my nose, but short of that there is no smell from the insect shield (embedded permethrin). With this and permethrin treated clothes I've been able to avoid DEET in moderately buggy conditions.

The only thing I don't like about it is that it's kind of warm with the cape down especially in humid weather. I'd like to find a similar hat with better ventilation but equal bug protection.

Walter: you might look at Sunprecautions web site. My hat with drape is surprisingly cool (i.e. not hot) to wear. I think it may be cooler than my Seattle Sombrero–but I haven't been up to the 80's in it yet. But you would have to treat it for mosquitoes.

The military kits use a concentration of .8%. The individual kits contain a .3oz bottle of 40% permethrin to be mixed with 15 oz of water. The target is for the treated garment to contain .52% by weight of permethrin. This is the same level the Insect Shield clothes contain. It's the max approved by the epa for treated garments. Army testing showed treated garments to provide 90% bite protection against mosquitoes after 50 launderings.

"Based on that trip I decided that there is no point in treating tents to keep mosquitoes away."

The same properties of the fabrics that make them work as shelters probably prevent the permethrin from binding to the fabric. I believe that in order to bind to the fabric it would have to soak into the individual threads, and it can do that on a tent then the tent isn't waterproof, and probably wouldn't make a particularly good shelter :)

Although I'd be exceedingly paranoid about harming my cat with the stuff, in tick country it's probably a good idea. Due to my concern for my cat's health I'd go for a pre-impregnated version instead of doing it myself. I might give that a try this summer :)

Ticks do take a while to croak, but I've never had one attach when my clothes were treated with Permethrin.

Mosquitos are another question. I once stopped in a 'skeeter-infested area and watched in silent wonder as a big one landed on my sleeve, went into instant convulsions, and died about two seconds later.

Love the stuff for clothes, But I wouldn't treat an enclosed tent with it. Why bother — and why risk the effect on silnylon or cuben?

Stargazer