Deciding between BearPaw Cub Den 1.5, Zpacks Hexamid (I chose Cub Den, here are the pics and initial setup)

Looks great. I ordered one in silnylon with the beak since my budget doesn't allow for cuben toys yet. I did have John make the netting attach with velcro so I don't have to carry the extra weight of the netting when it isn't needed. It should arrive tomorrow and I'm pretty excited.

Yeah it's great to have options, BearPaw is good about that, but it drives you nuts, haha.

I did not consider detachable bug netting because I didn't want the added weight of the velcro all around, but it does give you the option to remove it when you want.

I fought with:

Cub Den 1.5 Tarp and Bivy vs. Cub Den 1.5 Tent w/ bug netting (what I got) and beak or no beak for both shelter options I considered.

I knew I was not comfy with the amount of coverage the Hexamid gave me (judging from photos, who knows maybe I'd be fine) in bad weather (only a little bit more than my Poncho/Tarp) and with the extended beak I figured I'd get wet with the condensation anyway and that would pull the weight difference of the Hexamid w/ beak vs. Cub Den 1.5 w/ no beak to 1.92 ounces and $120 extra. Wasn't worth it to me to have to potentially deal with condensation and the unknown, but others may differ in their choice.

With the ability to remove the bivy in colder weather with no risk of bugs, I could def go lighter, but then I'd miss out on one of the benefits of the bivy in colder weather…seal out drafts for a guy that tosses and turns in a quilt. And I didn't want a bivy in warmer weather, because I want the ability to stretch out and subconsciously regulate my temperature by putting my feet outside the quilt when I get warm.

The other nice things about the bug netting is that it would act as as primitive splash guard for rain as well at the perimeter of my tent, keeping not only my quilt, but most of my gear drier. Plus I am human….maybe I think there won't be bugs on a trip but I bed down for the night and I've guessed wrong on a multi-day trip, now what? :o So I carry a weight penalty for that comfort factor I guess. And with the bug netting at the perimeter I can squeeze on my GF or a buddy it looks like.

Tough calls all the way around, but nice to have options and quick shipping by the manufacturer. These days if folks want an extended beak he recommends a vent at the top of the shelter to vent condensation which I didn't want either (added weight). So I'll just get to the back of my roomy shelter is bad weather. From the downpour last night I think I'll be ok, but field testing is best.

It looks like your foot box of your sleeping bag will be touching the tent wall. That equals wet bag. I'm 5'-9" also and have ran into the same situation with my Lightheart Cuben Solo. I need to find a way to 'lift' where my feet are. BTY….the Lightheart is AMAZING! Super light and mass interior space. I only need to resolve the foot box issue.

How much condensation do you get in your lightheart solo and I have a sil nylon solo but have plenty room and Im 5'10" How thick of a mat do you use?

Hello,

If you look at my pics (I admit, may be difficult to tell w/out being there), I had room for my head and the extra fabric of a sleeping bag above me and room at my feet to stuff my pack, so I doubt I'll have condensation issues at my feet, but may brush up along the sides with two people crammed in there in worst case scenario.

Also, my pics were taken in a worst case scenario….

– Shelter pitched to the absolutely ground (normally it's 6in off the ground)
– Two sleeping pads (Normally it'd just be me going solo plus my gear)

The Lightheart solo is a nice shelter, but was too heavy and expensive for me:

http://www.lightheartgear.com/LightHeart_Gear/Cuben.html

It comes in more expensive ($575) and heavier than my Cub Den it seems (18-20 oz vs. 12.1 oz including shelter, lineloc 3s, and 30 feet or guy lines)

The SMD Skyscape X looks interesting with a quoted weight of 16oz and price of $450, but not sure if the quoted weight includes stuff sack, guy lines, linelocs are included in the quoted weight or not.

"It comes in more expensive ($575) and heavier than my Cub Den it seems (18-20 oz vs. 12.1 oz including shelter, lineloc 3s, and 30 feet or guy lines)"

The Lightheart is a double wall tent with a floor. Kind of apples and oranges when compared with a floorless tarp.

I don't like the Bear Paw for the simple fact it takes 2 poles to setup as opposed to 1 with the Hexamid. I've seen too many broken poles to rely that heavily in setting up a shelter. I guess you could carry a spare in your pack, but that negates some of the weight savings.

Hi Peter,

I've come across similar posts like yours, and I can understand the want for redundancy, but in my travels I have never broken a pole and in the NE there are always plenty of sticks around. Could be different in other areas of the country I suppose.

The Cub Den 1.5 also has a webbing strap at the highest peak to tie it off to an overhead tree if need be.

My polycro ground sheet is 1.25 oz and can be found in window insulation kits at hardware stores for a couple of bucks. I do not see a benefit from the bug netting acting as a double wall (condensation perhaps?), but that is a difference between my shelter and the lightheart solo and contributes to weight difference.

Another option would be to purchase a net tent for $90 w/ flooring. 8 oz in CF + just the tarp version of the Cub Den 1.5, 5 oz = ~13-14 oz double wall shelter. This would give you the "double wall" if you prefer that as well:

http://www.bearpawwd.com/shelters_floors/pyraNet1.html

(I'm working quickly so not scrutinizing weights and floor print between the two as per my usual :p)

"I do not see a benefit from the bug netting acting as a double wall (condensation perhaps?)"

Condensation is one advantage, but the other big one is the ability to roll up the fly and see the stars. I like having a view on nice nights.

I opted for the larger Cub Den vs. hexamid w/ beak after reading reports of condensation (and not willing to add a vent ) and for extra coverage. We'll see if the bigger shelter indeed leads to less condensation.

I am used to a Poncho/Tarp, so no moon roof for me, it was narrow enough to just cock my head a bit to the side and see the stars. I won't get this ability with my cub den 1.5 on both sides, but perhaps on the side with the awning. :)

The other thing I just thought about is generally my view of the stars is blocked my trees in the NE. Perhaps there are more open places in your neck of the "woods." :)

like you said… the extra tieouts help increase the space at the foot box… and also you could pitch it a bit higher and be ok…

i ordered the cub den 2 for me, my wife and dog… i haven't taken my dog yet but when the wife comes along it's plenty of room for the two of us…

i am going by myself most of the time, so i am planning on getting a minimalist 1 to lower my total weight… and then i'll get a cub den 1.5…

check out my review on my tent :D not the greatest but you can see pics of it too…

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/reviews/display_reviews?forum_thread_id=44194&cat=Shelters%20-%20Tarps%20%26%20Floorless&cid=33

Roberto, prior to my review, your review was about the only freaking one I could find on a Cub Den of any size, on the net. So much appreciated haha.

Speaking of dogs….when speaking to the owner of BearPaw he said he made the Cub Den 1.5 originally to house a person and his/her dog, haha. So it works nicely for one person with a lot of protection and gear to spread out with, or two people really crammed in there if need be. :)

Actually looks like a pretty big shelter for one, and longer and wider than my Cub Den 1.5:

http://www.lightheartgear.com/LightHeart_Gear/solo_specs.html

If someone of similar size (5-9) is getting condensation from running up against the inside of the shelter, I'd think it would be because it narrows down too much width wise where your feet would go? Is that more the problem than height near your feet? it's a pretty long shelter.

"I don't like the Bear Paw for the simple fact it takes 2 poles to setup as opposed to 1 with the Hexamid. I've seen too many broken poles to rely that heavily in setting up a shelter. I guess you could carry a spare in your pack, but that negates some of the weight savings."

Simply not true for any east coaster, and many west coasters. You CAN use 2 poles to set it up, or you CAN use 2 sticks to set it up, or you CAN use one pole and one stick to set it up, etc. Thinking you have to carry a spare pole, or buy a Contrail because it only uses one pole, is just, well, silly.

Or tie off above you to tie it to a tree for the high peak of the shelter.

And I suppose you don't need the ~30in shortened pole in the front if you had a small tree to tie off horizontally…. certainly more convenient with the poles though.

This would apply to the MLD Trailstar/Cricket as well.

Well I just came home and my Cub Den was waiting for. I have to say that my first impression is that I am not going to need a new shelter for a while. I purchased the silnylon version with the extended beak and perimeter netting. I had John make the netting attach with velcro so that I can leave it at home when bugs are not an issue. There is ample room for me and my gear (5"9 140 lbs) and if you use the side panel tie outs, there is even more room. I'm still fiddling with setup and after I will try to weigh it all.

Wow that thing is short.

Nice pitch Tyler…. looks like u have more daylight and better weather to play with yours.

Can you describe the steps you took to pitch it? It's a little tricky and I had little time to practice.

From the pic, it looks like your poles are slightly -> /

vs. in the blueprint (http://www.bearpawwd.com/tents_tarps/tent_images/cubden/dcubden1_Dim.jpg) -> / |

Is this the case or just the pic? I had trouble getting it -> / | as well, but I was dealing with fixed poles which aren't optimal.

What is your finished weight?

I guess the picture doesn't show the height well but when I sit up in it, I have several inches of space left between my head and the silnylon. I'm coming from the Contrail and this has more headroom and it's more usable since the apex is not right at the front.

Agreed on the height Tyler. We're the same height and even pitched to the ground I had tons of room above me at the peak.

It's actually more the angle of the picture. When I have the beak down I place the front pole inside so I have to angle it more. When the beak is rolled up, I can place the front pole out side to provide a whole lot more room. Ya the pitch is kind of fiddly at first. I stake out the 4 corners first and then put up the rear pole. I then use the apex guyout to secure the rear. Then at the front, I add the front pole and use it's guyout to secure it. I then go around and tension up all the guylines and adjust the angle of a stake or two. I'm still getting the hang of it but with some practice it should take just a minute or two. As it would happen I seem to have misplaced my scale so I will post my weights later today. Unfortunately no rain in the forecast for a while so that test will have to wait. One little problem that I am having is with the rear pole. The handle of my pole is wanting to slide around on the area where the silnylon has been reinforced forcing me to angle the pole to provide more stability. Wondering if this is an issue for your cuben version? With the side panel tieouts this thing is a palace for one. Way larger than the Contrail I sold to buy this.

W/ regards to the rear pole, I had to cock it off center a bit (right to left as you look into the shelter straight on. This can be seen in the 3rd and 4th pictures of my initial post.

I had no trouble with slipping on the CF< but there are variables at play like the plastic on the top of my pole may be different than yours and I had the end of my pole driven into the ground (even though it was a bit sideways to fit).

I imagine when I get my adj poles and the rear pole for the high peak can sit up more upright it will be even more secure.

Ya having adjustable poles I think helps with this shelter. I have been playing around with a couple different heights and stuff. You can just about pitch this as high as you want depending on the conditions I would expect. Alright so I found my scale so here are some of the weights.

removable netting: 6.1oz
provided stuff sack: .4oz
cubden+beak+guylines:17oz

I haven't decided on what lengths guylines I want so I just weighed it with a bunch I just had laying around. Add in a ground sheet and I'm around 24oz with all the components. The part I like best is that when bugs are not an issue I can just bring the 17oz tarp. I like the modularity this will provide and the usable floorspace.