Starting the process of MYOG’ing my whole setup.

Here is an idea I just came up with;

In order to continue to push forward with my ideas regarding making this gear without sewing and attain the lightest reasonably feature-rich gear, I have to come up with interesting solutions to some challenges. One was the attachment of mesh to underside of tarp ceiling, and then also attachment of mesh to bathtub floor. I was thinking that I might not have much success with gluing zippers to tarp nor zippers to mesh. Further, I presumed velcro would be too heavy for extensive use

But here is a lightweight solution that steps beyond zippers and velcro.

Ziplock closures. I thought, what if I could transfer these little plastic interlocking channels to cuben/mesh with some glue. I imagined that this method would be more heavy than a zipper. But, if I am correct, my searching online shows that the ziplock closures (double versions are easily removed from the large laundry/clothing storage bags that ziplock now makes and sells at Walmart etc, I have a bunch of them and so cut one off and measured its weight) weigh in at roughly half that of the smallest reasonable zippers, further, this stuff might be dividable into half-a-double-channel to make it 1/4 the weight. They can probably be readily replaced should they get ruined, and they offer ready access to any side of an enclosure without finding the zipper toggle.

Of course, I doubt their relative strength, so you couldn't use them wear high tensions are expected. But, for mesh applications, this might be a blessing, you might damage the replaceable ziplock enclosure before you damage the mesh, should something fall into the mesh.

Just an idea

Hi John,
Welcome to BPL. I've been a member here about two years. Best place for lightweight/ultralight information, in my opinion. There's a lot of folks here with far more experience going light than I have, but I'll weigh in with a few comments.

First, your target weights for pack and shelter are nice, leading me to wonder: why will you still have a 16# base weight with two of your big three at 2.5# combined? In fact, putting together a sub 10# base weight with either of your current shelters can be done.

You may be carrying a lot of unnecessary extras (esp. clothes), a too-heavy stove/cook kit, and a a sleep system that can go a lot lighter. Dropping weight by leaving out things you don't need will be much quicker (and cheaper) than making gear from cuben. For MYOG, you might want to use a cheap material to prototype your ideas, before cutting up a bunch of $25-30/yard material.

Get a scale and weigh everything, if you haven't already, make your gearlist into spreadsheet of all the items with weights, and post it here. You'll get plenty of feedback.

A couple other things:

Will you really need a pack with 50-60 L capacity?

The ziploc idea is interesting, but playing around a bit with a ziploc bag, I think the zipper will pull open under most conditions where velcro or coil zips stay closed. You may also have problems getting multiple lengths of zipper to line up and close easily (assuming I understand your concept correctly). Finally, on my scale, freezer bag zipper isn't any lighter than sew-on 3/4" velcro.

Welcome!!
As David said, this is the place to be.

I live in northern Montana so I totally get the requirements for weather. Sometimes the temps can fluctuate 60 degrees F before lunch. The biggest problem I run into is sleep systems. The temps seem to dip down into the 30's more often than not. The only solution I have found to make my kit UL was to get a good 0 F bag and go with a tarp and bivy. I have a real nice 32 F but I find that the manufacturer was mistaken. (I haven't had the courage to try a MYOG quilt yet) That said, the funnest part about it is making the gear and actually having it work. Have you played with penny stoves yet?
Have fun!
BJ

Thanks for the replies.

I do have a spreadsheet going, and am using it to scrutinize everything. And for some destinations, I am carrying too much. When I went to the Grand Canyon, it was true…I was carrying too much clothes. But my experience in the unpredictable Canadian Rockies (where my description was not just being dramatic) has shown me that I will use all the clothes in my pack at some point in a trip).

Further, I am probably working out some old habits/demons from previous training/experience. While in the military, we carried alot of gear, as the philosophy was: "you can't plan where you are going, so plan on going everywhere". If the gear wasn't in your bag, don't expect to have time to find it before you have to push out on a new tasking. On top of that, being in the medical field, you can imagine my first-aid kit is rather large as I have always been the one expected to fix everyone that needs it. At this time one of my side projects is to reduce the weight of my "shower kit", "firstaid kit" and "repair kit" to half of their weights. Its pretty tough to do. So far I have gotten my shower kit down to 288grams from 476grams. I am hoping it will be easier to streamline the repair kit from 589grams to 220grams and the first aid kit to 200grams from 440grams.

And then, some things are just fun to have come along. Or, sometimes I find I am particularly fond of a piece of gear. My sleeping bag is good to -4C (24F) and weighs 770grams. I could probably get this down to 600grams (or maybe less with quilt), but I am really happy with the way it is now. So, it will probably stay.

I will post the spreadsheet tonight when I get back from work.

As for gear building, this is actually a multi-faceted decision. One of the most important aspects of it is that it gives me something to do. I may be one of the best examples of "idle hands are the playground of the devil". So, making Cuben fiber gear will keep me out of trouble.

But, that's all I can write for now. Got to get on the treadmill before my time is up and I have to switch gears for work.

Once again, thanks for the replies.

Cheers

John

I did venture into them about 2 years ago. Bought a 6 pack of heineken and started making them, even grabbed some redbull cans and developed some double wall stoves with fiberglass etc to improve fuel flow, warming and vapourization of fuel. However, the limiting factor ended up being "finding appropriate fuel". I just couldn't seem to find denatured alcohol anywhere I looked (which was only in my small city and the big city it was on the outskirts of, at the time – I have moved since). I could find rubbing alcohol, and methanol….but isopropyl was too dirty, and methanol just didn't have enough BTUs to make it efficient. So, I gave up.

However, since then I have heard that denatured alcohol is available somewhere in Canada, so I just have to start looking again. But, this time I am going to find the fuel first and then consider building the stove. Then once I have the stove, miniature pot to go with it (I figure I need a pot that can hold about 3 cups water minimum, 4 cups ideal), then I will have to figure out how to keep this stuff from getting crushed…because I do like a high-tension, fully compressed pack.

Cheers

John

I guess an interesting penny stove would be one that could burn white gas. Now that I think of it, isn't white gas something like twice the BTUs or ethanol? A penny stove that could hold up to the heat of white gas would be the cat's …er…. meow.

Imagine a standard A-frame tarp/tent propped up with two hiking poles at the two apices. Commonly, the one near the "door" where you would lay your head, is typically set higher than the pole set at the "foot" of the tent.

Does anyone have any ideas why this is so typically the case? It seems to be a significant increase in the complexity of the tarp/tent design, without any obvious benefit to me. Maybe I just don't recognize the benefit. Please inform me.

Cheers to you all

John

I guess I should also start finding out where people buy their Cuben Fiber sheets from. (And I guess I should also find out if anyone has definitive information on where I can find denatured alcohol in Canada, as I spent 2 hours looking for it today)

Foot end lower – tarp requires a little less fabric so it's lighter

Maybe a little more resistant to wind

Cubic Tech in 9 yard increments

http://www.questoutfitters.com/ for smaller quantities

Having one side lower sheds wind considerably better. It basically gives you 3 sides of protection instead of 2 with a normal A-frame.

I've lived and backpacked in the Canadian Rockies sporadically for the past 6 years or so, so hopefully I'll be able to help you out with some of your questions.

I don't know if you have an MEC where you live, but the one I visited in Edmonton had alcohol stove fuel – the problem with finding appropriate fuel is that it can be called a million different names. The stuff in MEC I believe was methylated spirits. Canadian Tire and other hardware stores will usually carry something you can use – sometimes under the name marine stove fuel, or methyl ether, or something similar.

As far as shelters go, tarps in the Canadian Rockies can be a bit hit or miss. If you are in the National Parks, you are restricted to using the established camps, which means you can't always use good site selection to minimize the lack of 360 degree protection a tarp offers. If you know it's going to be good weather, and there aren't any exposed sites on your route it would be a very light option for you, but it wouldn't be my go-to shelter in the Rockies.

For a go-everywhere shelter in the Rockies, I'd want full bug protection (as you alluded to), a wind-resistant design, and protection from blowing rain/snow. Maybe some sort of pyramid-style tent? Or something similar to the SMD Haven: http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/tarps.html?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_smd.tpl&product_id=45&category_id=8

Hope this helps out…any more questions just fire away.

If you are serious about the above, you will need to learn how to sew, and you will need a machine set up that can handle tapes and webbing.
Not that taping cuben is a bad idea, there is just a lot more to it than that. Not to mention making a pack, for example.
There are a lot of good catenary tarp patterns available. Poke around on this site and visit the so-called 'cottage' manufacturers' sites.

I guess an interesting penny stove would be one that could burn white gas. Now that I think of it, isn't white gas something like twice the BTUs or ethanol? A penny stove that could hold up to the heat of white gas would be the cat's …er…. meow.

I live in Victoria on Vancouver Island. We have a fuel here for stoves, it's called Methyl Hydrate and you can buy it in any hardware or Canadian Tire. I just came off the PCT this year and was using HEET there, and this stuff at home burns much better, cleaner and hotter…

regards
Mike

@Mike: Isn't Methyl Hydrate is just another term for methyl alcohol (methanol), or is this something else?

@John: White gasoline is pretty volatile. Using white gasoline in home made stoves might not be such a good idea.

HJ

Jim,
I'm not sure. Now you've got me thinking. I'm going to go outside and check my container and get back to you.

Regards,
Mike

Methyl Hydrate = methanol.
MSDS : 500MH-2
PRODUCT IDENTIFICATION AND USE
NAME OF PRODUCT : Methyl hydrate
USE OF PRODUCT : Intermediary of chemical products, gas mixture
TRANSPORTATION OF DANGEROUS GOODS
SHIPPING NAME : Methanol WHMIS : B2, D1B, D2A,D2B
P.N.I. : UN 1230 PRIMARY CLASS : 3 flammable liquid
PACKING GROUP : II SUBSIDIARY CLASS : 6,1 toxic materials
COMPONENTS
COMPOSITION
% V/V
CASE #
LD50mg/kg
Oral/rat
LC50 ppm
TLV ppm 8h
methanol
99,85
67-56-1
6200,0 to 13000,0
64000,0
200
PHYSICAL CARACTERISTICS
PHYSICAL STATE :
Liquid
APPEARANCE :
Colorless, clear and fluid…………

Think about what you generally do in a tent/under a tarp. If you need to sit up to cook, you’re only likely to do that at one end. And your arms only flay about at one end, too (i.e. most camp activity takes place at the head end). So you really only need a taller, wider tarp at the head end, and a lower, narrower tarp at the head end. Essentially, it’s a mummy- or coffin-shaped footprint design that allows the corpse to sit up…

Now, if you need a lot of storage, you might keep the width the same at both ends, but, again, if you don’t have too much kit (going lightweight…), you’re unlikely to need that much storage space.

As for alternative fuels for alcohol stives, have a look at this recent thread.

A lot more information here: http://zenstoves.net/Fuels.htm

Right near the top you'll find:

Petroleum Fuels
Great heat to weight ratio. Caustic fuel. Generally burns hot and is unhindered by cold temperatures. See Petrol Stove Fuels for more information.
FYI – These fuels can't be safely used in an alcohol stove (it's already been tried).

I to am in Red Deer and have fought and sought long and hard for alcohol fuel. Methyl Hydrate is not denatured alcohol and I do not use Methyl Hydrate due to it's potential health damage. I carry my stove in my cookset and I don't want Meth Hydrates getting everywhere. I haven't been able to find denatured alcohol in Canada but in Alberta we do have the privilege of buying 195 proof spirits (Everclear). The cost is high due to the taxes, but I feel much better having a fuel that I can drink co-mingling with my cookset. It burns with all the power of ethanol and has other benefits of potable alcohol. For the little fuel I actually use, I don't mind buying a 40oz and stashing it in my cupboard for hiking and party use.

I'd be interested in what you find for a light weight shelter for the Rockies use. I am currently packing a 7+lb double wall for the wife and myself and I would really like to knock that down substantially. But due to the wide variety of environment we find ourselves in (sometimes in the same day) my search for an appropriate tent has left me with many questions. I'm looking forward to hearing about what you come up with.