May 6, 2011 at 12:56 pm #1273427May 6, 2011 at 2:03 pm #1733870
Jim ColtenBPL Member
Is the following what you are referring to?
Patrol Activities—A Boy Scout patrol or Varsity Scout squad may participate in patrol activities with the permission of its Scoutmaster or Coach and parents/guardians. Appropriate adult leadership must be present for all overnight Scouting activities.
That is not new in the 25 years I've been a scouter.
Interesting though, my first year as a scoutmaster my predecessor brought a French exchange student to visit summer camp for a day. He was a scout in France and said that adults were never present at campouts. (late 1980's)May 6, 2011 at 9:37 pm #1734051
Michael RayBPL Member
It is new as of within the past year. If you look at SM, SPL or PL Handbooks from just a couple years ago, they state:
Most Patrol activities take place within the framework of the troop. However, patrols may also set out on day hikes, service projects and overnighters(my emphasis added) independent of the troop and free of adult leadership as long as they follow two rules:
• The Scoutmaster approves of the patrol activity
• The patrol activity does not interfere with any troop function.
A patrol activity without adult supervision should be allowed only when it has been thoroughly planned well within the patrol members’ levels of training and responsibility. If the Scoutmaster has any doubts, he should encourage the patrol to reconsider its plans, or should assign adults to accompany the patrol during the activity in question.
The overnight language is now missing from the National website. The GSS now specifically states adults must be on overnights.Jul 21, 2011 at 2:17 pm #1761740
I remember this argument with one of my Scoutmasters as a member of the Grizzly Patrol in the early 1970's. He was adament..no patrol only camping or hiking. We did it anyway.
All of the literature in BSA publications, except two famous Norman Rockwell illustrations showing a Scoutmaster with his troop snug in the beds and one sampling a boy's cooking, never showed adult supervision. It described patrol camping and hiking trips and the perception was boys went out alone with their peer group. I read all of Scout literature in the local public library. It improved my reading level and I was eager to join a real Boy Scout troop when I turned 11.
I have been studying the diaries and primary sources of 19th century Americans emigrating West, particularly women pioneers. As you read the physical challenges and decision making this generation of Americans made, particularly the freedom and responsibility outdoors they gave adolesencent boys I truly wonder how we can share are the same nationality, character, and strength of the American people from the past.
Except for the men and women who have volunteered for military service, we are raising a nation of youth that Theodore Roosevelt would likely find revolting and sissifiedJul 21, 2011 at 2:43 pm #1761752
@aaronmbLocale: Central Valley California
My two cents, if I may, as ignorant Devil's Advocate.
Considering what has been suggested – that we are raising a nation of sissies – isn't it prudent then, simply because of the way things are 'now,' that these kids have the perceived safety of an adult present? Times have changed and some of it's unfortunate. This new rule about over nighters is in response to the way kids–and some adults, no doubt–are now-a-days. We might wish the BSA had tried to hold on to some of those traditional values that encourage responsibility, accountability, independence, etc–the same values that these kids may be missing–but it is probably hard pressed to, considering, as suggested, the way kids are now being raised. It's a legitimate reaction to our changing society, especially considering the lack of personal accountability that is running rampant in the mainstream (stereotype-pushing example: "We're gonna sue 'em! My boy twisted his ankle because no adult was supervising!").
I'd guess that this change was motivated from Lawyers/Insurance providers?Aug 4, 2011 at 10:39 pm #1766335
Another thing that has succumbed to "for legal reasons". Down Under we are meant to "shadow" any patrol hike or camp.
I take this to mean I will meet up with them at campsite, then I go and camp 1/2 a mile away [well that's so I don't scare them with my snoring].
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