Load lifters on frameless packs?

What load would you want to transfer on a frameless pack? If you have much load, then internal stays/frame would come first. Also load lifters don't do much good if the pack load does not extend up beyond your shoulders, as the lifters would need to be several inches above the shoulder straps, requiring some sort of frame to do that.

Scott,

Most do not use or like load lifters on frameless packs but I find them useful. On frameless packs load lifters do not necessarily transfer weight from shoulders to hips but keeps the pack tight against the upper back and shoulders (preventing the pulling back/away from this region) decreasing shoulder fatigue and discomfort.
I had load lifters added to my Super Burn and find them extremely useful…and it's a very minimal weight gain.

Christopher,

Wouldn't a properly fitted pack not require lifters to keep the pack secure against the back and in the correct carrying position?

Nick,

My MLD pack is the most comfortable frameless pack I've had yet. My packs are properly fitted per my height, torso length, ect….but still haven't found a frameless even when it's a great fit, that totally prevents (even though it's mostly minimal at best) backwards pull from the shoulders. It could be just personal preference as I like my pack to ride firmly against the upper back and load lifters have seemed to provide this.

Cheers

My experience has been the same a Christopher's. Packing a flameless pack properly and having it at just the right capacity, so it is firmly stuffed, definitely helps, but I still felt like my MLD Exodus needed load lifters (or some sort of strap to keep the pack closer to my back)and this was the main reason I didn't keep it.

I now have a GG Gorilla and the frame works so well that I find load lifters unnecessary for keeping the load close to my back. If I remember rightly Nick is a McHale user and McHales, if I understand correctly, do things somewhat differently. As discussed here http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=44578

If you fill up a frameless pack, it is generally a cylinder. The back of the pack (side against your back) is straight. But your back (spine) is curved, and this varies among individuals. Most people have an "S" shaped spine.

So if you put on your pack, and the shoulder straps are adjusted properly, then the bottom of you pack is going to hang away from your body. If you cinch up the waist belt (assuming you have one), then the pack is going to try and pull back from your shoulders, causing pressure against the front of you shoulders. The purpose of the waist belt is just to stabilize the bottom so it will not move around, and it is not really designed to transfer weight. If your straps are loose, and you cinch up the waist belt, then tightening the should straps is also going to put pressure against the front of you shoulders.

So a frameless pack really is meant to carry all the load on your shoulders. And anything over 7 or 8 lbs will probably become uncomfortable after 10 or 12 hours of hiking. A stiff pack frame-pad is straight, and a very flexible one cannot transfer any load, as it will fold.

A properly fitted internal frame pack will have the stays shaped to the contour of your back. This way, the pack will not pull away from your body, and you can transfer most if not all of the weight to your hips, and the shoulder straps generally just keep the pack secure against you body.

I have found the load lifters on my pinnacle nice. I am generally using it with winter gear so higher baseweight makes them more attractive. I find I do need to use a wide foam pad so that there is support in the upper pack when it is not full. Overall for that niche of framless packing I like them.

"If you fill up a frameless pack, it is generally a cylinder."

Nick, while I think that this is most often the case, it need not be so. A frameless pack can be packed to not be a cylinder, and even more importantly (and perhaps rarely), sewn so it resists sausaging.

Given proper packing, and selecting your kit so that you can pack properly ought to be a big consideration here, I don't think there is as big a difference between frameless and internally-framed packs as many would prefer to pretend. Internal frames help with load transfer, no doubt, but they also make it easy/possible to pack poorly and get away with it.

A pack needs to maintain a good torso length to be comfortable. Most frameless packs seem to do this buy making the effective torso length (distance between shoulder straps and middle of hipbelt) long enough to collapse a big and still keep the strap attachment around the proper length. Problem here is that IMO you want some load transfered across the back of your shoudler muscles, which is only workable with straps that attach a few inches below the ideal torso length. This latter situation is of course where load lifters are essential.

I build load lifters into my packs because I much prefer this later method. Some prefer the former, and I don't have enough experiense using it with heavier loads (25+ pounds) to really comment.

I've always found lifters to be useful for my comfort. My GG Virga has them, and while they don't appear to be useful from the traditional wisdom of "they should be 45 degrees to the horizontal" they definitely keep the load closer to my center of mass and aide my overall balance on foot while walking. Personal preference perhaps, but I can definitely detect a marked difference with them cinched down, for the better.