Double Wall, 3-4 man tent

[Jenn M]

Apologies in advance if this has been covered about a million times – I did some searching and still had some questions.

My boyfriend is going to be coming backpacking with me (next year, so we have some time). I want to show him one of my favourite areas, and we'll probably take our time, so a 6-ish day trip.

Because he's not as strong as I am (I'm not saying he's weak, he's a multiple Ironman finisher), I'll be carrying most of the gear/the heavy stuff. My plan is for him to be able to use my GG Murmur and I'll probably carry my ZPack with carbon fibre stays to accomodate the extra weight (he'll also have to have my exped downmat 7 to lessen the whole 'sleeping on the ground' thing, but I'll carry it for him).

Anyways….

He would prefer a double-walled tent. I would prefer to share a tent. Currently I own: Tarptent Squall 2, ZPack Hexamid (with mesh, but not the mesh inner), and a BA Seedhouse SL1. I actually just sold my BA Seedhouse SL3 :(

We also have 2 dogs, both medium-sized.

If we have to, we'll just bring the Squall 2 and one of the one-mans (hopefully by then I will have bought a TT Moment and sold the BA as my winter tent, though sometimes I just use my tarp in the winter as well) and not sleep together, though if I do sell the BA by then I won't have any double-walled tents.

Are there any lightweight, double-walled options that could fit us and the dogs? I looked at tents like the Mutha Hubba and it's just more $ and heavier than I'd like to go. Same with the BA Fly Creek UL3 and the GoLite pyramids by the time you add the inner.

Right now my front runner is the TT Hogback….it's more space, and more weight, than we need, but I'll be able to carry the weight fine.

But, I'm wondering if there are any other options I'm missing.

[BlackHatGuy]

How tall are the two of you? In other words, the dogs won't fit curled up at your feet in a Scarp 2? That would be smaller and lighter than a Hogback.

[Jenn M]

I didn't realize it was double-walled as well :blush:

Hmmmm….I'm 5'8", he's around 5"11". One dog is 46-50lbs, the other 32-35lbs.

For 5 ounces less, I wonder if that's the better option. I don't want him to feel to squished – I want to make this as fun for him as possible, he's already not looking forward to sleeping on the ground (he grew up canoeing, but now feels he's 'too old' to sleep on the ground, hence the exped as well).

Thanks!

[BlackHatGuy]

Also, what time of year and where (temps, weather, that kind of thing).

With your heights, the Scarp 2 might be a bit of a stretch to include two dogs in as well.

How much are you looking to spend? The MLD Duomid with duo inner might work, but the Supermid with inner would easily fit you two and the dogs.

If this is a one-time thing for him, or might be a one-time thing for him, I'd suggest looking into renting a shelter – I think some of the REIs rent them. You'll end up with something a bit heavier, no doubt, but not waste money on a one-use item.

Another thought, an MLD Trailstar with a BearPaw PentaNet 2. If it's gorgeous out, you can just pitch the net tent. If you need a bit more protection, pitch the Trailstar.

[Franco Darioli]

Scarp 2 inner :

The Scarp 2 may still not be big enough but it is bigger than some.
There are two entry points with two usable vestibules, so you won't need to use inner floor space for your packs.

Franco
[email protected]

[Jenn M]

Ahh, temps and where we're going.

We're in Ontario, I'm taking him to Killarney in September (we have to go post IMC) to do the La Cloche Silhouette Trail. It will be cool at night but nothing unmanageable, and most campsites will be fairly sheltered. The worst we should face is bad rain.

Franco, thanks. I saw that pic and it's helpful. It looks like we could all squish in the Scarp 2, I'm just not sure how comfy it would be.

I thought of renting (MEC rents too) but I'm concerned if the dogs accidentally damage the tent (which has happened in the past, just accidents….not for ages) then I've bought myself a tent I'll never use and hate. At least I have the chance of using a lighter, bigger tent again. I do volunteer for an outdoor club and take out groups, so the tent would probably see some action, that said, I'm not buying a tent to take people out in a volunteer role either….it's why I sold the SL3, the only time it got use anymore was when I lent it to people on my trips. And now of course I actually have a use for it! Blast!

Oh, and I'd prefer to stay under $300, realizing that it may not be realistic. We may stick with using multiple shelters as a result if it's just not affordable. Luckily there is some time, it doesn't have to be bought right away. Going to check out the Supermid!

[BlackHatGuy]

A couple of things to consider —

— If it's not going to be near freezing, then do you really need such an insulated pad? A NeoAir or some such would be a lot lighter and still cushy (unless you already own the Exped and are trying to save money)

— Have you thought about a double-wide bivy with net hood? Something like that lets you snuggle together, and gives him the 'double walled" protection from critters (if that's why he wants a double wall tent). Oware makes one. MLD will make a double superlight bivy. Put that under a mid and you're good to go.

— Have a friend watch the pups while you're gone and then your Squall 2 would be fine! If he likes it and wants to do more, you can get a bigger shelter for all of you.

[Jenn M]

I already have the Exped – it's my winter mat (I got it for xmas!).

It's not needed, but as my partner doesn't like sleeping on the ground, it's the best comfort for him and a luxury I'm willing to carry to make him happy. I'll probably just use my GG Nightlight Torso and maybe my pack under my legs if it's cold (talk about the difference between us!).

The dogs loooove to backpack! They come on most of my trips, or at least one does at the moment (one is recovering from some liver issues). We'd love to have them come.

He wants the double walled b/c of condensation from a single wall. He's slept in a TT in a rainstorm (a few years ago, I convinced him to car camp for a weekend – it was June, and muggy, so of course condensation) and the rain knocked condensation onto us, he hated it.

Bivys seem really claustrophobic to me. I've looked into them for the winter a few times and haven't been able to get past that. Dunno.

[Joe Clement]

I'll probably get crucified for this, but I'd watch for an Alps Lynx 4 on Steepandcheap for $120.

And everytime I read one of these threads, I am reminded why I am so thrilled my dogs stay home.

[Richard Lyon]

Jenn,

I doubt the Scarp 2 will accommodate the two of you plus your dogs. A Hogback would be perfect. (And I own both of these tents.) You might also consider a Black Diamond Skylight, slightly smaller but should work as the four of you appear to be good friends. The Skylight is a hybrid, part single-wall, part double wall. I have the Epic version and it has been remarkably condensation free.

Richard

[Jenn M]

Thanks Richard. I really am leaning towards the Hogback at this point, though I like that Black Diamond.

I'm doing a 9-day trip in a few days and I'll have another girl and one of the dogs (the bigger one) in my Squall 2 so who knows, maybe I'll think we can squish in another dog, but I doubt it.

[Brad Groves]

Hogback would be a good option. I do like the Fly Creek 3, great space:weight, but it might be a bit cramped with the two dogs. Roomy 2, or 2 & one dog… but if your man's looking for spacious comfort, probably not the best.

Until recently I traveled the backcountry with two dogs, 90-pound & 70-pound, & sometimes another person. My favorite shelter for this kind of stuff is a pyramid. Tons of room for little space. What I really like is that there's enough space to get the dogs & wet gear on one side of the shelter, me & another person on the other side. I like a 4-P mid for this the most. Definitely consider the Supermid & an inner. Does get into some cash, but maybe you could sell another piece of gear or two?

Just spitballin', an Oware 9×9 is ~$225, a MLD innernet is ~$195… gets you to ~$425, 80 square feet, and about 3 pounds. Another option would be to check out Bearpaw at bearpawwd.com; doesn't look like a shelter quite this size, but you might be able to work something out?

[Christopher Taggart]

I'll throw in a suggestion for a Eureka Timberline 4. At roughly 7.5 pounds it's heavy. However, you can find it on sale for about $130 dollars. If your significant other finds out that he doesn't like hiking then at least you're only out $130 bucks and your local Boy Scout or Girl Scout troop would love the donation.

Of course you could also purchase a MLD Supermid or Speedmid with a mesh inner. I'm sure you could sell it on gear swap if you want. They seem to always be in high demand.

[Richard Lyon]

Jenn, if you do get the SkyLight let us know how the NanoShield performs. Richard

[. .]

+1 on an Oware 'Mid. Get a 10×10 (link) @ 26 oz. for $229 and a BearPaw PyraNet 3 (link) @ 17 oz. for $139

That would be tough to beat for space : weight : dollar ratios.

[Jenn M]

Thanks everyone!

I will be surprised if the SO agrees to do this a lot more, though because of leading trips I will have the opportunity to use the tent again – it's a question of whether it's worthwhile buying a tent for one trip with someone I love and then to help outfit trips I volunteer to lead.

I'm leaning towards the Black Diamond or Oware/Bearpaw set-up if I do get something b/c of the usability for winter….it really will be the price. I'm going to look around and see if I can get these on sale/second hand. The Oware is more flexible, which is a bonus, b/c I can just use the tarps (dogs don't always come in winter).

I like the Hogback but I think I'd rather get something a bit better for winter use so if I'm going to spend the money, it's a more flexible purchase for me. Right now, if I can get the Skylight on sale/used, I think it's the winner (I'm also a sucker for green).

[Megan P]

Hey guys,

I am deciding between the black diamond skylight vs copper spur. I'm leaning towards to skylight bc the copper spur is just so ugly :) anyone own a skylight? I'm worried about the condensation bc a lot of reviews have said it accumulates quite a lot. Jenn did you buy the skylight? Do you like it?

I poseted another thread about this… but i found this so I chimed in.

Cheers,
Megan

[Kevin @ Seek Outside]

We do double wall optional lightweight tents that will easily sleep 3 or 4. Very versatile

Seekoutside.com

[Jenn M]

I'm just reviving this thread….hopefully that's okay as no longer a specific tent ?.

No new tents, not in the budget right now :(

It doesn't look like Ironman Canada is a go this year….somebody (koff koff, the SO) is way undertrained. No final decision yet, but it's pretty well going to not happen. Happiness reigns in our house at the moment, let me tell you. DNF'd a 70.3 yesterday :(

I am thinking instead of doing the backpacking trip with boyfriend while we were supposed to be in Penticton/BC. Moving the trip up means no new tent for the trip though.

But….my boyfriend has no hiking muscles, if that's possible for a dude who's done 2 Ironmans and trains year round.

So, as mentioned, I'll be carrying the majority of the weight.

As the only double-walled tent I own (and he wants a double walled tent, rolls eyes) is the Big Agnes Seedhouse SL1, I'm thinking to bring that for him, and then me and the dogs will fit comfortably in the TT Squall 2.

So, with no weights, b/c I'm lazy about this, does this seem like an okay distribution of gear? I'm thinking a 7 day trip, in Ontario, but in the La Cloche Range, so a lot of elevation change.

BF:
-GG Murmur + torso pad (which I will use to sleep on)
-Go Lite Ultra 20 quilt
-clothes, including raingear
-camp shoes/light flip flops
-water
-lunches
-1-2 dinners
-headlamp
-camera (p&s)

Moi:
-Granite Gear Vapor Ki (I have a large ZPacks pack but am thinking b/c of the extra weight/gear to bring this one instead)
-Exped Downmat 7 (for the bf to sleep on)
-TT Squall 2
-Big Agnes Seedhouse SL1
-North Face UL bag (around 1lb, 4oz)
-Bushbuddy
-First aid/survival kit
-GPS (don't need it on this trail but he got it for me for xmas, and it rocks, so I'll bring it) + batteries
-Spot (haven't decided, don't think we need it, he might like having it though)
-breakfasts (oatmeal most likely)
-lunches
-5-6 dinners
-some dog food (that doesn't fit in the pack, and to help out my older dog, who of course is the big one….the other one could carry more but needs a smaller pack)
-water for myself and dogs
-clothes/raingear
-silnylon small tarp in case of rain around camp
-camp towel
-VFF (for in camp)
-camera (panasonic lumix)

I'm sure I'm missing some stuff, but….I can carry 50lbs, and back in the day I did this trail faster bordering on 60lbs of gear, so I am confident I can carry the weight, unpleasant though it will be, they will be short days to the La Cloche Silhouette in 7 days.

Or am I crazy to carry so much of the gear? I just want him to have fun, and he doesn't like sleeping on the ground so much. I'd prefer to bring the Hexamid for him but it's not double wall, though it would save a lot of weight for me.

[Laural Bourque]

Is there anyway you can just rent a tent for one trip? If he likes it, you can put the money forward for purchasing the tent, otherwise you're only out a little.

[Jenn M]

With 2 dogs, I'd rather not rent a tent in case of damage.

Plus, being in Canada, my main option for renting is MEC, and AFAIK, they rent MEC tents. To rent one big enough for the 2 of us + 2 dogs, it's easier and probably the same weight (or less) to carry the TT and the Big Agnes, as heavy as the Big Agnes is.

[Matthew Perry]

"With 2 dogs, I'd rather not rent a tent in case of damage.

Plus, being in Canada, my main option for renting is MEC, and AFAIK, they rent MEC tents. To rent one big enough for the 2 of us + 2 dogs, it's easier and probably the same weight (or less) to carry the TT and the Big Agnes, as heavy as the Big Agnes is."

The rent's too DAMN HIGH….

[Andy F]

If he's done 2 Ironmans, I'm sure he'll survive with carrying his share of the gear! :) I'd probably nix the camp shoes and any extra clothes (other than socks).

[Jenn M]

You'd think that, but I've hiked with him before! It is inexplicable to me, but he struggles hiking. Dunno. And it's not like he's a 17-hr IM kinda guy either, he's a 12.30-ish guy, which isn't fast but is respectable.

We did a little hike this winter (5k?) but stopped early because his ankles were bothering him. A few years ago we did a winter snowshoe (~10k) and he cut his 18k run down to 10k the next day because he was so tired….there was snow, but it wasn't a crazy breaking trail experience either. He does do better hiking in the summer though, so hopefully that helps.

Dunno. We'll just dawdle.

Good call on the camp shoes though. I can just see him complaining about wet feet….maybe I'll buy him some vapour barrier socks instead, which I can use for winter trips! Mwuahahaha!

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