5 oz Climashield Apex warmth?

> Ray makes a statement in his book Trail Life that two inches of shredded newspaper would
> have roughly the same warmth as two inches of down or two inches of synthetic (pg 80).

Yeah, well that is extremely unlikely, unless you turned the newspaper into single cellulose fibres. Even then it wouldn't get there. I doubt he meant that.

Cheers

Hi Vincent

It is normal to put the stronger fabric on the inside. Also, having the DWR on the outside would be very good.

Mind you, both fabrics are quite durable.

cheers

> > Does Apex have more insulation value per inch of loft (clo/inch) than down?
> Yes. More warmth per loft.

An interesting claim, abut one I have some trouble believing. Apart from the manufacturer's claims, is there any documented proof from independent testing?

Cheers

5oz APEX lofts to 1.2" and is good to at least 30*, a down quilt at 30* needs 1.5-1.75" of loft. Of course i am no scientist but to me that means that per unit of loft the APEX is warmer right? Now again this is per loft not per ounce as in bags rated ~35* or less down will always win in weight.

-Tim

I used to be firmly in the "when comparing insulations, a certain amount of loft provides a certain amount of insulation and it's the same regardless of the material" camp … I believe the theory is that the insulation merely immobilizes the air and a fixed thickness of air provides a fixed insulation value.

But I do find that I'm just fine at 30*F under a Primaloft One quilt (about 5.5oz/yd^2 and about 1.0-1.25 inches thick) whereas a 800FP down quilt made with 1" wide baffles does not come close to that warmth.

So perhaps there's more to it that I understand.

Roger

You have a clo/R measuring device

Maybe you could measure some down and some synthetic and see if there is a difference in clo/inch of loft between them

And what do you think of using a MET = 1.3 vs 0.8 for sleeping? Then the clo vs temp chart would be consistent with Tim's experience

Please pardon this thread drift.

Roger,

"Also, having the DWR on the outside would be very good".

Don't the manufacturers of PU coated nylon tents put the coating on the inside of the tent?

Wouldn't you want to do the same thing with the DWR finish on the M90 or Intrepid?

"Some PU-coated nylon fabrics have a Durable Water-Repellent coating (DWR) on the fabric. In principle this should stop the fabric from absorbing any water: the water should bead up and roll off just as some pretty catalogues illustrate. But what those catalogues don't tell you is that the DWR does not last very long out in the open (a year or two), and the DIY versions for home use seem to last even less time".

The above was copied and pasted from bushwalking.org.

Party On,

Newton