Aluminum vs Carbon Fiber Tent Poles

[Ike M.]

I'm thinking about picking up a SMD Lunar Solo and noticed that the optional support pole is carbon fiber, as opposed to the aluminum poles sold by Tarptent.

As I understand it, the basic difference between the two materials is that aluminum will bend under pressure, where carbon fiber will break and basically splinter at the ends. The weight difference between the two seems negligible (.2 ounces for a 45" pole). The carbon fiber is a bit pricier. Is there anything else to take into account? Is carbon fiber significantly less likely to break than aluminum?

I'll be using the tent on an extended trip where buying a replacement tent pole won't be an option. I'll likely have to camp in relatively unsheltered areas at times, and I'm a bit worried about wind.

[EndoftheTrail]

I've used carbon fiber tent poles on three different tents, including the Lunar Solo. Carbon fiber poles are more vulnerable to breakage esp. if bending the pole into a relatively small (or tight) arch. As well, they will deflect more in the winds. I now stay away from them generally.

However, in the case of Lunar Solo, I actually had very good results with the carbon fiber pole. Setting straight up, there was essentially no bending / flexing — so the weaknesses of carbon fiber didn't come into play. So long as you've got the Lunar staked down securely on all sides, you should have no problems at all.

[Daryl and Daryl]

At equal weight I would certainly go with the aluminum pole.

I've seen carbon fiber poles break twice. It is sudden and over. No warning. It is similar to Nature's way of saying slow down………death.

If there was significant weight savings and the poles remain in a close-to-straight orientation then I'd go with carbon fiber. I use carbon fiber for my backpack frame and a 1 person tent.

[Ross Bleakney]

I think a big part of the decision is how the poles are supposed to work. As already mentioned, if there is a bend in them, I would go with aluminum. If the poles are just straight up and down, I would go with carbon fiber. If the carbon fiber one weighs the same as aluminum, it means that it is thicker, so it should be stronger in general. Same goes for trekking poles. A three ounce aluminum trekking pole would break pretty easily, while a three ounce carbon fiber pole is just fine. I use heavier aluminum poles in the winter, when I am more likely to bend the pole (slipping and sliding in the snow).

[Matt Sanger]

Unfortunately, I think that much of the truth in some of the posts above is due to a lack of serious R&D and competition in the carbon fiber tent pole market. Seeing what CF has done in other domains makes me think they COULD be a very good alternative to Al, but they aren't (yet). These generalizations seem fair, but could be upended by progress in developing better CF poles in the future.

[Christopher Kuzak]

I just got a new tent that uses carbon fiber poles (I posted about it in the Easton Kilo forum). The poles were something I was concerned about, but after setting the tent up for the first time last weekend, my worries have dissipated a bit. They seemed pretty sturdy, though I would not want to step on them.

If the weight difference being discussed here is so small, I would go with the aluminum poles. I've had a few aluminum poles bend, but I've never had any break. I sure hope I can say the same about my new carbon fiber poles.

[Roger Caffin]

If you read our When Things Go Wrong article, you will see what CF tent poles can survive.

Yes, they are always under a bending load to give the tent strength.

I have had straight Al (Easton 7178) poles snap under load when they did not have enough pre-bend in them. That was a bit inconvenient at the time.

You do need 2D wrap tubes, NOT pultruded ones.

Cheers

[Christopher Kuzak]

Roger,

How would one know if poles are pultruded?

[Clint Warner]

I am the OEM sales manager for Easton in SLC, UT. I oversee the tent pole business and work with all of the above-mentioned manufacturers. Carbon fiber is probably one of the most misunderstood materials in that it is only as good as it is engineered to be (lay-up). Poorly engineered layups will produce poor performance. Much of what I read on BPL regarding carbon fiber tent poles is only partially true. Yes, carbon-fiber, if used incorrectly or abused can and will break, but so can your high-performance climbing rope if you stand on it, jump on it, or otherwise abuse the fibers.

Carbon-fiber, when properly engineered, is lighter and much more durable than aluminum. That said, you cannot just take any carbon tube and turn it into a tent pole, if it were that easy, Easton would simply turn any number of our arrow shafts into tent poles.

Sadly, most of the attempts by other manufactures to introduce carbon fiber tubing into the tent market have had lackluster acceptance because the layup of the carbon tubing they were using was really intended for some other application and using it as a tent pole was merely an after thought.

Easton's carbon fiber tubing is different. Our carbon tent tubes are not arrows turned into tent poles. Our engineers specifically designed the lay-up of the carbon fiber in the Carbon FX to be optimized for the dynamic loads unique to tents. The forces required by arrow design are entirely different and any attempt to use an arrow or some off-the-shelf generic carbon tubing would produce marginable results at best (believe me, we have tested that). The Carbon FX tubes that SMD and others use are equivalent in stiffness (which translates into load bearing capabilities) to our .355 diameter tubing that typically is only used in extreme 4-season mountaineering tents due to its stiffness and heavier weight. However, what makes the Carbon FX different is that because of its unique tent-pole specific carbon layup of both unidirectional and wrapped carbon fibers, that pole is way lighter and stronger than its .355 aluminum counterpart. Compared to the standard .340 and .344 aluminum tubes used in most ultra light applications, the Carbon FX is way, way, more durable and doesn't take a permenant bend. Also, if it does hapen to break, it will break cleanly and will not splinter lengthwise like cheap fiberglass poles do.

If you want my opinion, given the choice, for this application, between aluminum and carbon, go Carbon FX…without question. We currently have a set of our carbon poles on everest at over 18,000 feet right now and I would confidently recommend OEM'ing them in any manufacturers 4-season tent. Aluminum poles are great and well proven for exedition use too but only the stiffer sizes (>.355"-.490" OD) would I recommend for severe expedition use. There is no other carbon pole in the world that is light enough for ultralighters yet strong enough for our recommendation for high-mountain expedition use other than our Carbon FX 6.1 or our brand new Custom Carbon 6.3 (even stiffer pole than Carbon FX now used in the MSR Carbon Reflex 1,2,3).

To show the world just how cool carbon tent poles can be, our new ION pole being used in the Easton Kilo tent was designed with ultralighters in mind and is even 40% lighter than the Carbon FX (obviously not as stiff however). You could never make an aluminum pole that is that light yet strong enough to support a tent. Carbon fiber IS the future of high performance tent poles. That said, it will never take the place entirely of aluminum but will certainly have its place, and deservedly so.

[Clint Warner]

If when they break, and the split runs the entire length of the tube, like what happens when you split a piece of bamboo, you know you have a unidirectional pultruded tube. Those are typically used in the kite market and for really inexpensive beginner arrow shafts. Also, the cheap fiberglass tubes used in Walmart tents are typically pultruded and will fail in this way.

[Warren Greer]

Thanks for sharing what's going on with Easton and how poles are made. Looking forward to all the innovations to come.

[Ron Moak]

Just a quick note. Don't know how many, but we've sold a lot of them over the years. We've never had someone report a break. One hiker was camped at a lake in Yellowstone when a big blow came in. He reported that his pole deflected as much as 45 degrees in the wind. The carbon fiber tubes came out fine, though the aluminum ferrule between the tubes bent.

Ron

[Ike M.]

I love how much knowledge is available on this site! Thanks for all the info. Definitely going to opt for the carbon fiber pole.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Clint

Welcome to BPL. We appreciate your contributions. However, I am going to challenge a little bit of what you wrote.

> you cannot just take any carbon tube and turn it into a tent pole, if it were that easy,
> Easton would simply turn any number of our arrow shafts into tent poles.

I agree 100% that you cannot take any CF arrow shaft and turn it into a good tent pole. You need a good 2D wrapped tube for that – what you call 'multi-layered wrapped carbon' I think. The poles used in the red tent shown above are in fact precisely that: 2D wrapped arrow shafts.

I haven't had a chance to test the Easton Carbon FX against my tent poles and would welcome the chance. I do have adequate lab equipment to do the testing – and have already done considerable pole testing.

Cheers
Roger Caffin (PhD)

[ziff house]

where can i buy these Carbon FX poles?

[. .]

@Clint – thanks for posting. Yes, please do get in touch with Roger and the editors here to educate us further on the subject. There are plenty of souls thirsty for proper information hanging around this site, as surely you are aware. I have shied away from carbon poles thus far because of conflicting reports of reliability, difficulty to find, and their high cost. Solve these three problems, especially the first two, and I'm on board.

[Clint Warner]

Carbon FX is a very reliable system, I promise. Try it out, you won't be dissapointed. You can get them as aftermarket sets from Tentpole Technologies http://www.polesforyou.com Tom Hagerle may not have them in stock but he is our aftermarket distributor and certainly can get what you need from us. Regarding cost, they aren't cheap…but neither is cuben, spinnaker or anything else synonomous with being light. I believe it's worth it though. Unlike with the ultralight fabrics being used in tents, carbon is the one lightweight investment that you are paying for that is actually stronger than its aluminum alternative.

[Clint Warner]

Dr. Caffin,

PM Sent

[Bob Gross]

http://www.polesforyou.com

This web site makes no mention at all about carbon fiber poles. It is all about fiberglass and aluminum poles.

Perhaps there is a different web address that we should be looking at.

–B.G.–

[R S]

Not sure if they have the poles for your particular tent/tarp, but Fibraplex poles have a lifetime warranty. FWIW.

[Bob Gross]

I've only used Fibraplex carbon fiber poles for the last three years or so, but they seem good.

–B.G.–

[Clint Warner]

They aren't featured on http://www.polesforyou.com Web Site, but he can get them for you from Easton, just send him an email or by phone. For information on the Carbon FX poles, go to http://www.eastonpoles.com

[Daryl and Daryl]

Clint,

The Easton charts and info would mean more to a gram counter like me if weights for the various components were included.

Daryl

[Sam Farrington]

Isaac,

You do not provide specs for the SMD carbon pole, only that it is 2 oz lighter than the alloy. As with many things, the strength depends on the quality and thickness of the material. Since the SMD pole is being used for a rigid application, it should be thicker than the Easton dome tent poles due to a larger diameter and greater thickness from more layers of carbon wrap. But you would have to talk to SMD to get specs. Ideally, you would want to know the I.D., the O.D. and the # of layers of wrap, but even with that, quality remains a factor.

I would not use flexible dome type carbon poles for a 'mid tent, as there is no need for bending them as is done for a dome shape, and I would not want something that is going to bow in high winds for a 'mid tent.

I searched for a couple years, and found that one of the the Victory V6 arrow shafts in a .3" ("300") spine layup is stiffer, but has about the same strength in break tests as the Easton aluminum .344" shaft and the Easton Carbon FX. None of the other carbon kite, tentpole or arrow shafts, including the Victory V6 400, which is lighter, more flexible and thinner walled than the 300, tested as well in break tests, albeit some were much more expensive and touted for their strength by the manufacturers. Note that the Easton alloy shafts are very higly tempered, and although more flexible than carbon, can also shatter, rather than bend. The Easton .344" shaft is used on the TT Moment. It weighs just under 14 gpi (grains per inch – 437.5 grains=1 oz), compared to just under 10 gpi for the V6. The Easton Carbon FX weighs around 12 gpi. So I agree with Roger, that the right carbon arrow shafts, with enough layers of multi-directional wrap, can be suitable for tent poles, lighter, and just as strong as alloy, but will not be as flexible; hence, the greater need for elbows such as those used on Roger's tent.

The jury is still out on the more flexible carbon poles being used on the new EMP tent. From the posts and pix on the BPL thread, it does appear to use an elbow on the more tightly flexed hoop-shaped pole.

Although you are looking for a larger diameter and more rigid pole for a 'mid, these comments about more flexible carbon shafts for use on dome tents should matter to you in the sense that carbon can be both lighter and stronger than alloy in an equivalent application. There was a post during the last year from a DIYer who found a very cheap but good rigid carbon shaft on a used golf club.

So, IMO you really have to depend on the reputation of SMD to provide a suitably strong, light and rigid carbon pole for its 'mid tents, even though it may not be as rigid as the expensive carbon avalanche probes. If you get the pole, and it is more flexible than a carbon trekking pole, I would send it back and get the alloy pole or look elsewhere. If you keep it, please let us know how it holds up in high winds. My guess is that keeping the stakes planted will be a bigger issue.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Years ago in teh late '70s Excel (Swedish) came out with their carbon fiber cross country racing poles. How wonderful they were! Light as a feather and did not bend much at all, thus letting all the skier's energy to go to propulsion, not into bending the pole.

Excel used a "spider weave" criss cross interwoven wrap to get that strength and stiffness.

As said above, it's all in how well engineered teh lsyup is.

[Author]

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