Is 2011 the year of the stretch woven softshell?

i think the patagucci ascensionist showed what a good woven softshell can do

not to mention most are much cheaper than those not so breathable powershield softshells … and usually lighter

some credible mainstream internet reviews ive seen (ukclimbing.com) state outright that a woven softshell is more breathable … where as before it was all rah rah rah, polartec powershield … id like to think customers are becoming more discerning before spending $$$$ on a not very breathable softshell …

with this and the greater popularity of windshirts … hopefully were seeing a move away from yuppie marketing and name brand technical wh-ring to actual performance

my most used piece climbing has been a $50 MH woven softshell … handles chimneys, offwidths, cracks, glissades, freezing temps and keeps on coming back for more … just need to renew the DWR every so often … my dead bird $$$$ polartech powershield gamma sv hoody is sitting in the closet …

Certainly picking up a bit in the UK – both RAB and Mountain Equipment seem to have moved into these in quite a big way in recent times.

I think that maybe down to Haglofs coming in with some stretch wovens which sold nicely? Judging by Haglofs & Norrona the Scandinavians seem to have liked them for a bit. Ok along with windstopper but no ones perfect :)

Traditionally we've tended to have lined windshirts as the notably breathable option and they're still about too. No stretch there of course. Either option certainly noticeably cheaper than Powershield.

Haven't TNF always had these in their clothing line somewhere? Now whether the shops stocked them perhaps another matter.

IMHO Powershield isn't that bad- at least you can feel a stiff breeze through it. Expensive and not breathable enough during 'high output' activities- at least it isn't WINDSTOPPER, Gore Soft Shell, and the many proprietary PU membranes Marmot, MH and others use.

I think a lot of companies have always had some stretch woven, at least for the last few years. The TNF Nimble was around in 2009 and 2010, per Backcountry. Looking at Marmot's catalog last year, the majority was categorized as M1 or M2- groups of fabrics about as breathable as a hard shell.

i used a dead bird gamma MX jacket last year as a belay jacket on runs up multipitch routes … if it had airflow it sure as hell didnt feel like it … i was belaying from some pretty exposed positions getting whipped by wind …

id say my dead bird windstopper is actually more "breathable" if you get the thinner versions …. powershield always seems to be thick, heavy and lined with micro fleece … not to mention $$$$

now powershield pro …. thats a failure …. dont hear too much about it after Outside's product of the year (NF Kistwar jacket) … wonders of yupppie marketing

either way i think people are realizing that the softshell promise is a bit of a failure, especially when yr hiking up hill on an approach … you basically carry that membrane softshell instead of wear it (except in deep winter) … they do make great around the town yuppie jackets though ;)

not to mention being sick of spending $300-$400 …. has that cool logo though which says im "hardcore" =P

I should fess up and say that my only experience with Powershield is with the Gamma AR. Got it used for (literally) 80% off, and I've been happy with it. Not $275 happy, though. Fleece is similar to the MX, though the face fabric is a bit more burly and a little less stretchy. I feel more of a breeze through it than I did with the Marmot Approach softshell, which is a non-membrane M3 softshell. I know Polartec has made versions of Powershield with varying levels of perforation- maybe the MX and AR use a slightly different Powershield membrane?

I've tried a few jackets made with a light WINDSTOPPER- Arc'teryx Solano, something TNF, and a Marmot Leadville. All have the same CFM as a Gore-Tex hardshell: 0. All felt less breathable to me than the last few hard shells I've had, and the additional fabric lining made them less bearable for use while hiking.

I think they tossed Powershield Pro under the bus for NeoShell. Only a 2-3 PSP jackets around, never seen one myself.

The industry seems to see "softshell" as nothing but a marketing strategy. Outerwear that isn't waterproof needs to have some pseudo-tech label to pin on, so softshell it is.

I do quite like the stretch woven and Pertex+pile stuff for hiking and other outdoor use, especially in the winter. Wicks a bit, and slows down and diffuses the wind just enough that I can maintain a decent microclimate between the softshell and my base layer, leaving me less likely to get too hot, too cold, or too sweaty. Weight has always been a bit much for me to use for 3-season backpacking, though.

"I think they tossed Powershield Pro under the bus for NeoShell."

My theory is that Powershield Pro is the same membrane technology as NeoShell (i.e. microporous PU) but an earlier and less refined version of it (not necessarily, but it makes sense), with larger pores and therefore increased breathability and stretch but with lower waterproofness. Of course, neither PSP or NeoShell is going to rival the breathability of a stretch woven, but they will provide heaps more weather protection.

I suppose see a place for all three types of shell in an adventurer's closet, but actually I see a stretch woven as being the least useful. If I need something with more than 5 CFM breathability I'm probably doing something very aerobic and will want to lose as much heat as possible quickly, which means I'll probably just take my shell off and just wear my mid/baselayer. And if I need something with lots of protection then I'm going to wear either my PSP or Neo Shell jacket, not a fairly air- and water-permeable stretch woven. I suppose there is a middle ground but if I'm packing one protective jacket to take I'm going to choose something that I know for sure will be protective enough even if it might not be as breathable as I might like, which almost certainly means leaving the stretch woven at home.

For me, a non-membrane stretch woven softshell is the perfect active winter outer layer, worn with a base layer and nothing else. With some exceptions, any mid layer insulates too much for me for active use in the winter. What I like about a stretch woven soft shell is that it doesn't completely block wind, but slows and diffuses it. It seems to do this better than a light windshirt (Pertex, Supplex, etc) or a fleece mid layer. This allows for a wider comfort range than I'd get with a something with either a very low CFM (Windstopper, hard shell) or very high CFM (fleece mid layer).

It all depends on use. I generally stick to day trips in the winter, and don't freak out about weight. Rarely carry a hard shell in these conditions, too.