Light water filtration/treatment options ?

Caffin on iodine

"It works, mostly, given time" .. MOSTLY?? I'll bet there's a good story there!

I made a gravity filter a la Bill Fornshell with a trimmed up Hiker Pro filter and using a cuben black drybag from mountainfitter that weighs less than 3 oz with a dry filter
(and the filter is basically never dry so say about 5 most of the time) The thing is maybe faster than a pump filter and you can drink through the filter if you're thirsty so no wait.

I've had problems with frontier pro's clogging and they're slow as Christmas.

"I've had problems with frontier pro's clogging"

I've had that happen a couple of times. Each time, I took it apart and found a pine needle or other debris at the pre-filter end. I removed that, reassembled it, and it worked fine again.

–B.G.–

Not dismissing Cole's problems with the Frontier Pro clogging — but my experiences have been the same as Bob's. As well, given the filter's gargantuan pore size (10 to 15 times BIGGER than most all quality filters out there) — it shouldn't clog so easily.

WOW! I found time and internet access two days in a row!

The problem with iodine to which I think Roger was alluding is that there is one bug of concern to hikers for which it works poorly. IIRC it is crypto. That's the real reason chlorine dioxide has supplanted it.

For the record- I'm a big fan of the Sawyer filters which were mentioned above. I can't think of a reason to carry a spare filter, though, unless you plan to screw up and let one freeze or something. They use microtubules similar to a dailysis kidney, and I regularly back-flush mine by mouth. Works great.

Mind you I'm not saying chemicals/UV/etc is wrong by any stretch! All water treatment systems have their tradeoffs, and you just have to pick what works for you. But I WILL go out on a limb and suggest that for our purposes the Sawyer is the best *filter* going…

IIRC the Frontier Pro is so coarse a filter that it only works on protozoans. It won't reliably filter bacteria, and it's intended to be combined with a chemical treatment.

"IIRC the Frontier Pro is so coarse a filter that it only works on protozoans. It won't reliably filter bacteria, and it's intended to be combined with a chemical treatment.

+1. I pair mine with chlorine drops (5 drops per quart plus a 30-minute wait).

Bacteria can come as small as 0.2 micron. And thus, most quality filters have a pore size of only 0.2 to 0.3. But the Frontier Pro pore size is a whopping 3.0 microns — 10x to 15x bigger than most quality filters.

This should make it all easier than ever.

"Viruses, sediment, bacteria, protozoa, cysts, and other contaminants are filtered out exceeding all applicable EPA recommendations.
NO CHEMICALS, NO WAITING, NO PUMPING, NO WORRIES!"

Complete gravity system.
https://www.sawyersafetravel2.com/more.asp?pid=116

That new Sawyer System sounds interesting, but expensive……….. $236.49

The porosity of the filter is listed as an incredible 0.02 micron absolute. I really want to see what flow rate (liters/minute) that will produce using gravity alone. Some form of pre-filter will no doubt be encorporated to protect the system from blinding. The product description at the listed URL doesn't say a lot.

As a microbiologist, I used 0.2 micron Millipore filters to sterilize liquids that could not survive heat sterilization, but they required either pressure or vacuum to force the liquid through. At 0.2 microns, they removed all bacteria and most viruses. I remember filtering some home-made wine for a neighbor. Because of blinding, it took over 40 filters to clairify a single 750 ml bottle, and that's more turbidity than in most water sources a hiker will ever encounter.

For reference, really tiny things are measured in either Microns or Nanometers.

1 micron = 1000 Nanometers

Various references list viral diameters as ranging from 10 to 200 nanometers (0.01 – 2 microns), so a filter with a pore size of 0.02 microns (20 nanometers) will take out all but the smallest of viruses. For comparison, common flu viruses range from 50 to 120 nanometers and Enteroviruses are about 30 nm.

This might be something I'd use in an at-home disaster kit. On first glance, this thing is overkill for me here in the Pacific NW. For other world locations where viruses – especially enteroviruses – are a threat, it's a different story.

The flow rate will determine whether it would ever go on the trail with me. I'll have to wait until it comes out in May.

Craig:

I'd recommend staying away from the Sawyer Purifier. Two reasons — the second being the show stopper for me:

1. No carbon core means purifier won't do anything to remove bad water taste.

2. Show stopper (for me) — every time the Purifier dries out (i.e. in between trips) – you need to prime the thing with the power of a kitchen faucet. You can't prime on the trail by manually forcing water through the Purifier. And until you primed the thing properly — the water throughput is slow as molasses!! And if you do prime — it means starting every trip with a heavy and wet Purifier. I called and talked with a Sawyer representative about this inconvenience (annoyance). In a nutshell, it is what it is. Sold the thing right after the call.

It's why they include a faucet adapter with every Purifier. As always, YMMV, of course.

Thanks Ben,

That's a show stopper alright!

So far the aquamira drops and the pro filter is the best choice?

Any comments for those who use the Sawyer system?

For the sake of discussion.

I have an "amigo-pro" type home-made system using the widely available katadyn hiker pro filter (AntiClog Technology with 0.3 micron glassfiber (no cleaning needed) Activated carbon granulate) trimmed to @ 2.6 oz along with a 6 L cuben dry-bag. The filter & bag with fittings weighs 3.7 oz DRY. Along with that I need or use one 2L platypus "bottle" and a @ 24" section of tubing and a bite valve for on the trail hydration tough since I must have a second bag to collect the gravity "pumped" filtered water the only duplicate item is the bit-valve which is actually weightless ;)

Using the frontier pro dry weight 2 oz. I needed a "dirty bag" ( used a 2L platypus at 1.2 oz ) tubing from the "dirty bag" to the filter and then from the filter to the "clean bag" extra ?? oz and the rest would equal out so the frontier-pro system had a weight advantage ABSENT THE WEIGHT OF LINE FROM DIRTY BAG TO FILTER of .5 oz

Often context is everything. On the occasion my frontier-pro clogged it was late winter near the end of a long day of dry southern Appalachian ridge-line hiking. The spring I was using was clean but small and there was a little leaf duff in the very shallow water. Cold/ late, getting dark, camp not made. Plus there's the issue of getting water into that tiny platypus opening. Then a relatively modest amount of leaf duff clogs up the pre-filter of the frontier-pro ( doesn't take much!) and the whole thing slows to a crawl……… And there were no real suspended solids or turbidity in this water, just some fine leaf duff which I guess is a suspended solid but usually avoidable in a stream with any real flow and depth instead of a seep forming the very head of a stream yet to be. Can't help but wonder what would happen to a frontier pro in a flowing stream with some serious suspended solids like say Deer Creek in the Grand Canyon for ex.. Anyway I decided then and there there had to be a more reliable way to filter.

With the amigo-pro type filter the dry-bag opening is relatively rigid and very large.
The flow rate of filtered water is MUCH faster and there's no need to prime to get things going (it'll give someone using a hiker filter with a pump a serious run for the money) Lot simpler to make the connections. If your thirsty you can pull the tube off the clean bag and have a sip which can require the suction necessary to pull the chrome off a trailer hitch to drink freely from the frontier pro.

The filter life is rated at 200 gallons vs 50. The whole thing is just easier, simpler and more reliable and maybe weighs less depending on the weight of the excess tubing and whether or not your using any pre-filters and maybe some sort of funnel type device to get water into the platypus…….. Anyway reliability, simplicity…what am I missing?

HUH ?!?

First, sorry for the necropost- I'm someplace that I cannot check the forums regularly.

Ben, I have no idea what you are talking about with problem #2. Literally. Honestly. My dirty-water container is a platypus. The first time I use it on the trail I just squeeze the platypus for 5 seconds or so. Voila- filter is primed!

Seriously, I am totally puzzled by your problem #2. I'm not belittling your experience or anything- I had just never encountered the problem. Thus my puzzlement. Am I missing something?

But seriously, if you're willing to use an admittedly-slower gravity filter anyway, squeezing a platypus for 5 seconds isn't very onerous.

Of course, I use the 0.1 micron filter, not the 0.02 micron filter. The flow from the 0.1 micron gravity filter is certainly slower than for instance a pumped filter such as the Sweetwater, but still pretty competetive for a gravity filter.

(By the way, the scary price quoted above is for the 0.02 micron filter. NONE of us need the 0.02 micron filter unless we're drinking from Mexico City sewage ditches- the 0.1 micron filters works just fine.)

And if I recall correctly from the instructions with the filter the faucet adapter is for use in third-world countries where you want to filter the tapwater. I had never even HEARD of this need to prime the filter with the faucet adapter until I saw your post. I'll see if I can find the instructions online to look it up, since I'm away from home.

1st> any filter system is NOT lightweight

2nd> if there are taste issues like sulfur "rotten egg" water such as much of Ohio suffers and you can't stand it (who could?) then a filter with carbon is your only option. But remember, filters, W/O iodine are NOT pruifiers.

3rd> Chlorine dioxide tabs (by Katadyn)and Steripens are the lightest, safe water PURIFIERS on the market. Chlorine dioxide drops are not as convenient as the tabs and, given the recommend ratio of mix, not as powerful as the tabs.

I finally caved and bought a SteriPEN. I haven't enjoyed water this much in a long time. The taste and quick convenience (besides effectiveness) make it worth the ounces

I will admit that most of my water comes from flowing water sources. Fresh, cold, and clean water. Some folks take pillows and enjoy their sleep. My Steripen allows me to enjoy my water.

Alternatively, I carry tablets for good measure. I'm paranoid about the liquids.

> 3rd> Chlorine dioxide tabs (by Katadyn)and Steripens are the lightest, safe water
> PURIFIERS on the market. Chlorine dioxide drops are not as convenient as the tabs and,
> given the recommend ratio of mix, not as powerful as the tabs.

Add MSR's MIOX to the list of purifiers — it's every bit as effective as a Steripen, has the same weight, but takes longer. (It's good if you're purifying a 3-liter hydration bladder overnight, not so good if you're purifying water for drinking along the trail).

Just FYI :)

There are lots of water treatment options out there. A brief rundown:
1) Boiling
2) Chemicals
3) Filtering
4) None
5) Radiation

Boiling, often just till it rolls. Most baddies are killed with the exception of a few spores and perhaps a few rare species of algae, bacteria. Nothing that will make you sick. Call it 100%.

Chemicals: Iodine, MIOX, AquaMira, etc. Good, but require about a 3-4 hour wait time to kill everything within 99.99% Ignoring Crypto & bacterial spores, about 15 minutes. Often, not very effective against macrobiotics.

Filters: Smaller pore size is better. The trade off is flow. Even overnight filters require you to carry a days worth of water for whatever conditions. And, if they stop up overnight, you will NOT have enough by morning. Excelent for macrobiotics.

None: Most temperate climates in mountains outside of populated or grazed areas are good. Springs are usually good. You takes you chances…

Radiation: UV and shorter wave lengths, mostly. Generally, this is about a minute and kills everything except macrobiotics, though effective. Tapeworm eggs are found to be mostly killed, but, you need a 100% to make it safe to use in that type of environment, Isle Royale for example.

Macrobiotics are usually tapeworms, flukes and eggs.

Only a combination of filtering and chemicals, or, filtering and radiation are really good for bad water. Boiling will ALWAYS work. Cooking will qualify as boiling.

None of these is real effective against chemical polutants: fertilizers, mercury, cesium, etc. More sophisticated filtering is needed for that.

I have been waiting for this topic to appear again.

My Aquamira Frontier Pro filter lasted all of three liters before it clogged.

Timothy, if you grab up a gallon of raw water out of a stream, and let it stand in a white gallon container such as the plastic one that bleach comes in, what happens?

If silt settles out of the raw water and you can see color on the bottom, that tells you something. That is what is clogging up your filter element.

Try this. Let the water stand in a container for 15 minutes, then run it through your Frontier Pro. Use the top 80% of the water and leave behind the silt and water on the bottom. See if that makes any difference.

–B.G.–

4

Rakesh,

I've never been impressed with the MIOX. It has all of the disadvantages of chemical water purifications with almost none of the advantages.

It still takes up to 4 hours (I know- not really, but still) to treat the water if it is cold and particulate. It tastes bad. Etc. And it adds a new disadvantage- it needs batteries.

But, it doesn't benefit from the light weight of other chemical systems. The only advantage that it retains is that it has full-spectrum activity, killing all relevent protozoans, bacteria, and viruses.

If you're willing to take something that size and weight and which needs batteries, take the SteriPen. It's easier to use, works immediately (unless there's a lot of floaties), doesn't taste bad, and also has full-spectrum activity.

Where the MIOX probably excels is treating very large volumes for a large party of people. But for one or two hikers it kinda sucks. It is a neat gizmo, though.

.2 microns doesn't remove all bacteria. i did some checking on leptospirosis, it seems that even a .22 filter will not remove 100%.

there is some research that showed .22 micron filters allowing 0.57% and 0.06% of lepto to pass through.

but, i think the percentage is so low, that the sawyer .1 micron filter does a good enough job.

i emailed the sawyer water expert about this, and he said you would need the viral filter for lepto. but in reality, it doesn't matter much since you don't usually catch lepto by drinking the water anyway.

btw i have the sawyer .1 and frontier pro, and strangely, the sawyer filters _faster_ than the frontier pro…

Dean,

For purifying a large volume overnight, the MIOX is excellent. For one thing, overnight no one tends to notice the 4 hour thing, and for another, if you let it sit overnight, the bad taste fades.

That said, I mostly use a SteriPen these days, especially in the Cascades where it's usually pretty easy to find water, so I rarely need to have access to more than a liter or so of water at a time anyway, so large volumes end up not being an issue, and so renders the MIOX's main advantage mostly moot.

Re:
"My Aquamira Frontier Pro filter lasted all of three liters before it clogged."

Are you sure it wasn't the prefilter that was clogged?

I have had the same issue, but it was just a matter of running water back through the prefilter.

I have had to replace the prefilters a lot when using gunky water, but they weigh nothing and cost practically nothing so I usually bring an extra.
You could also run your water through a coffee filter to get rid of the gunk before running it through the filter.

I also want to put my vote in for UV treatment. I think most people that try it, never go back.
It does require running water through a coffee filter to get rid of sediment on occasion, but well worth the effort.

Still liking my Pre-Mac military issue 3oz emergency filter.

One of the arguments for chemicals is that they are light weight.

I thought this as well until I realized that I was always having to carry extra water because of the treatment time.

Now that I use a Steripen, I can camel up at the water source and don't have to carry as much water while I wait for the treatment period to pass.

Filters are actually lighter than chemicals for this reason.

I found the Steripen to be a more reliable method and I don't carry backup as I always know I can boil water if the Steripen should die on me.

They do have a pretty good record for reliability, much better than filters.