Inclement weather, storm-ready shelters

I' suggest also looking at the wide array of mids on the market, you might possible be able to get one shelter for all seasons- many of the mids are 4 season worthy shelters

Mids are 4 season worthy shelters in only certain conditions. Lets not get carried away with their ability to withstand high winds and snow load. They do just okay. For really high winds you are going to want something much lower in profile. I think the Scarp is an ideal solution. I also think the Akto falls into that slot, the ID Wedge, and the Rab Summit 'bivy.' Just my 2 cents.

I suspect the Trailstar will come up in discussion. You can pitch it very low but it takes up a lot of real estate.

"One problem is cold fronts and being hit by wind-blown rain at 11,000 ft in the Sangres during summer to Big Bend State Park during winter. Nothing better than sitting in a shelter snug as a bug in a rug while the world howls outside the sturdy fabric walls."

You won't feel snug as a bug in a rug with most tarptents when you're facing a cold front… at 11,000 ft. Single wall tarptents made with non-breathable fabric rely on 360 degrees of perimeter plus one (or in your case two) entire sides of open mesh for venting and condensation management. This makes for a airy and comfy tent for temperate climes — but very drafty (think cold air permeating through continuously all night) under the condition you described (late season backpacking in the mountains).

Henry Shires carry double-wall tarptents — like the Scarp 1. Yes, this gets you right back to double wall tents — but more suited to your conditions — and still pretty light weight.

OTOH, if you have a good sleeping bag and don't mind cold winds blowing (people tarp all the time too, right?) — then a single wall can work for you, of course.

What about a MSR Twin Sisters or a GoLite Shangri-La 1? Both are single-wall that extend all the way to the ground. Properly staked and guyed, they seem like very storm-worthy shelters. I haven't used either though, so maybe someone else can comment.

It seems to me like 2 shelters would be worth it: a 3-season shelter that could be stretched into shoulder season with a bivy or lower pitching, and a solid winter shelter. Maybe better than trying for one shelter to do everything.

i luv my bd lighthouse tent. it's a palace for one and livable for two. it will stand up to most of what mother nature has to offer. and while some have experienced issues with the epic fabric leaking, i have not had that problem with a well seam-sealed tent. and even if there is some leaking, i'd be more comfortable in the lighthose then most tarp tent or bivy combinations. now that bd has stopped making the lighthouse they have beome a bit of a collectors item. snatch-up clean examples of them while you can (insert wink here).

The biggest problems with mid shelters is that they require good solid attachment to the ground. Wind and snow puts more stress on these attachment point on a mid than other shelters.

I have seen mids do quite well in gale force winds on exposed ridges, but big rocks were used to secure the guy points. They are actually more stable and don't bow in and flap like other shelter can do, leading to a better nights sleep.

But again, they must be securely attached and kept tight.

I have heard the stories of mid shelters not making it in extreme conditions, but in every case it was because a stake/anchor pulled out. That isn't the shelters fault, but it is something to think about.

Other shelters are less particular about this as the shelter frame takes most of the stress/abuse.

I still think you will get more weatherproofness per ounce with a mid than other shelters, at least that is my experience after being around the nearby disasters that I have seen.

If you want something really bombproof and forgiving, but heavier, a tunnel style may be the best choice.
But a tunnel will be noisier in the wind.

I've tried a variety of mid styles and I've been most happy with my SL3 in windy conditions. It seems like the smaller side-panel size helps shed wind a little better, and I like that the tension is distributed among six main anchor points rather than the four that square mids use. (That might just be psychological, and it does mean that you have to be able to get six good points vs four to begin with.)

I definitely agree that secure anchors are the key with all mids (and a stout center pole as well). When I started using them I tried using little ti stakes, but quickly realized that big burly pegs are worth the weight when staking into the ground.

For the conditions you describe I feel the Hilleberg Akto is still the best double wall solo tent going. But the TarpTent Scarp 1 as mentioned above is a very close (and more economical) second. It's similar in design to the Akto.

BTW, as Ben sez, single wall tarptents ARE breezy. I used my TT Moment at 11,000+ feet at Colorado's Arapaho Pass in October on snow. Winds were 35 to 45 mph ALL night. The tent was guyed out and didn't flap at all but despiote low snow walls around the tent's the perimeter mesh made if quite breezy inside. Snow would have blown in but thankfully the ground snow was consolidated and not loose.

> The biggest problems with mid shelters is that they require good solid attachment to the ground.
In a howling storm, every shelter needs ‘good solid attachment to the ground’. without exception.

> If you want something really bombproof and forgiving, but heavier, a tunnel style may be
> the best choice. But a tunnel will be noisier in the wind.

Well, I agree 1000% that the tunnel is the tent of choice for extreme weather (and not so extreme too), but noisy????? I can’t say I have ever had that problem, except for one tent which was made out of crinkly spinnaker fabric. That fabric was just plain loud!

If you subscribe you can read “When Things Go Wrong” for some light entertainment.

Cheers

maybe I misread the original post- if he's looking for a bomber, full on expedition tent, then I (and others) have probably given bad advice

if he's asking about a tent w/ rain @ 11,000' and a winter tent used in Big Bend Park in the winter, then I'll stick w/ my recommendation of a quality mid- oh there was that part about lightening the load too :)

Thanks Roger,

I'm probably generalizing on the tunnel tent. I just remember one night when a tunnel tent not far from mine mid tent, was making a whooping sound, but that could have been a resonance thing related to their location on the ridge.

I haven't had much experience otherwise. I do have a friend who took his on an expedition of the Falklands(constantly extremely windy place). He prefers it because of it's wind worthiness.

He did admit also to the whooping sound and said overall it was a common with his shelter, but he preferred it any way and slept fine.

It's a personal judgement call.

I enjoy going ultralight in favorable conditions. Tarptents and tarps and bivys are fun and work well for me when I'm not concerned about harsh weather.

When I anticipate harsh weather and especially when I am with a family member, I carry the extra weight of the best shelter I can have. I have a Hilleberg Kaitum 2 GT. Its about eight pounds. I've never regretted my decision to invest in a truey storm proof shelter.

For me, an extra six pounds or so is no problem to carry when the chance for really bad conditions could cause blow my ultralight shelters away.

But we are all different : )

Steven: " The biggest problems with mid shelters is that they require good solid attachment to the ground."

Roger: " In a howling storm, every shelter needs 'good solid attachment to the ground'. without exception."

Methinks Steven is referring to the areodynamic shape of mids (teepees). I used to own a "sorta tipi shape" Lunar Solo and yes, so long as you've got your stakes down pat — the single pole Lunar Solo deflects winds from most all directions. Not for wintering in the Himalayas but plenty secure for three-season use — winds and rains and light snow all OK, but preferably in temperate areas with low to moderate humidity.

I don't really want to do a commercial post but you might like our smaller 2 – 4 person tipi http://seekoutside.com/products/ultralight-tipis/ . It can be pitched to the ground utilizing a sod skirt to keep spin drift etc away. It's stove compatible if you want to hot tent it. It's roomy for two, could fit four in a pinch. It has a strong CF pole for the size, recently had over a foot of snow overnight, unmaintained, without issue. It has side guyouts that can be 2:1 or 3:1 for extreme conditions. There is a large storm flap over the zipper. It can have a DWR liner, for hardcore winter or wet weather. In the summer, it has a large screen that opens way up. It's between 2.5 – 3 lbs.

Sorry for commercial post. I thought it might be a good fit here.

Kevin

Kevins shelters are nice. A tipi is a great rough weather shelter. They usually work better in these conditions then a standard four sided mid due to the reduced surface area.

The Wild Oasis plus a bivy could work quite well, as you get a large bug free space (as long as you keep the door shut) and if it gets breezy you can get into the bivy for protection. I have Tarptent squall , which is great, but in a good wind they are cold inside because they are so well ventilated.

For more serious weather the Scarp gets good reviews, but there are quite a few other options once you start to look at tents. Tarp wise the Trailstar seems to be the current best choice, but as David said they do occupy a large area, especially when pitched low, which may be a problem for some people. There comes a point when a double skinned tent probably makes sense for a lot of people.

I know this is just a post from some dude who is in love with his tent but maybe it will help. I own a Golite Shangri-la 2 and don't know of any weather that it can't handle. In the winter it is bomber with tons of stake/guy points and you can dig down and have tons of head room. In the spring or fall you can bring a small bathtub floor just large enough for your pad and use the rest of the shelter for whatever the heck you want without worries of rain ruining your night. In the summer you got the mosquito net that can turn this thing into a breezy cool wonderland where no little insects can make friends with your body. I love it.

I have used the Shangri-la 1 with the Meteor bivy in the winter.
Very bombproof and likewise, I've pitched it tight for cold wind and high for lots of ventilation when needed.

Thanks for all the responses all ….. and also the other stormy shelters thread.

Additional Question:

In reference to tarptent draftiness, what about spindrift. If using these tarptents (or even tents with any sort of significant mesh), eventually there needs to be a point where adding a bivy or sleeping bag cover is highly recommended.

1. So far in my decision making process,I've taken a couple of looks at Roger's website (especially the recommendations about the door/vestibule areas) and will take all in account, comparing it to the ability of my trusty old MSR Zoid 1 (3lbs 12 oz) to take the brunt of some serious wind-driven cold fronts head-on, when making shelter decisions to hopefully take me to 16 oz to 24 oz-ish.

2. About the linked article, plus all the technical discussions and trip reports on this site, looks like I will be purchasing a membership after returning from some snow sports.

"If using these tarptents (or even tents with any sort of significant mesh), eventually there needs to be a point where adding a bivy or sleeping bag cover is highly recommended."

And therein lies the rub. By the time you add in a bivy, groundsheet, and a ton of pegs and guylines, you are a lot farther from your target weight than you thought. Weight loss doesn't happen in a vaccuum.

+1 above. There are reasons why we don't all just buy one UL tarptent and call it good for all shelter needs. Different tools to handle different tasks (or weather conditions) at hand…

Re. BPL membership — highly, highly recommended. Sure, the learning curve will eventually flatten out — but for anyone venturing into UL backpacking, the info. is immensely valuable.

Thanks all for your posts and posting your pics in a similar thread, but I actually liked the Integral Designs Sil-Dome's aerodynamic shape – but couldn't find a solo version of it (could go with an Exped Vela and just take the fly – but couldn't justify the cost at bringing half the tent).

Due to time constraints, and not using hiking poles all the time, I received a Tarptent Moment as a general shelter, to deal with serious wind-driven rain/monsoon downpours. Already considering cutting out the floor and netting to just make an aerodynamic fly but it is new ….

Yes, Henry needs to offer floorless models of some of his tents, esp the Moment.

Of maybe consider the Six Moon Designs Vamp.
The inner is separate from the fly.

And I just realized, it and the net tent are on clearance.