- Feb 23, 2011 at 9:29 pm #1700852
You would have to ask Ryan about that. It has to do with the development of the Cocoon gear: a BPL shop matter.
CheersFeb 23, 2011 at 9:30 pm #1700854
We are most definitely singing the same tune about insulating the head.
CheersFeb 24, 2011 at 5:12 am #1700919Diplomatic Mike
@mikefaedundeeLocale: Under a bush in Scotland
I've had a couple of PM's asking me about my experience using the Sawatch as a side sleeper.
I'll try to explain my thoughts more clearly.
My main reason for using a quilt is comfort. I don't like the constriction of mummy bags. Any weight saved is an extra bonus.
I don't use straps on my Arc Specialist, as there is enough 'tuck' to sleep in almost the same position i use at home. I don't get cold spots, as i seem to keep myself tucked in without waking up.
With the narrower Sawatch, i have to use the cords to keep it tucked in. It then becomes more of a 'top bag' in my opinion. Yes it works this way for keeping me warm, but i feel like i'm back in an uncomfortable (for me) mummy bag.
So just because this side sleeper would like more width, it doesn't follow that others will feel the same.
It's a superbly made quilt, and i'll probably try to modify it to suit my sleeping style.Feb 24, 2011 at 7:51 am #1700968Dave .BPL Member
>>The string provided is a long length adaptable to all sorts of pads, with some to spare. You just tie it around the mat to suit.
That's what I assumed from looking at the photos, but I thought I'd read somewhere that Katabatic quilts could only be used with certain sleeping pads. Thanks for clarifying.
>>Tucking the edge of the quilt under the mat seems very wasteful to me! I might tuck it under ME, but never under my pad. It could easily get damp between the groundsheet and the mat as well. Bit of a no-no in my book.
Huh. Good to know. I've never used a quilt, but I thought that tucking them under the pad was common practice. See this photo from the Golite Ultra review here on BPL:
What about hammock use?
One other question: is girth measured the same in quilts and in sleeping bags? In other words, if I have a Western Mountaineering Megalite with a 65" girth at the shoulders, how comparable is this with a Katabatic quilt that has a 52" girth. Girth is a simple concept with sleeping bags, but there is no actual diameter to measure on quilts. So is quilt girth measured with the quilt closed (two sides meeting together) or with the quilt attached to a sleeping pad?Feb 25, 2011 at 12:37 pm #1701548
> I thought that tucking them under the pad was common practice
Well, when I look at the photo you included I can see at least two big problems.
* The first is that stretching the quilt out like that will make for big draft channels down the sides. Brrr…
* The second problem is that it wastes a lot of quilt weight under the mat, weight which could be better used keeping you warm.
I guess if someone can't stay on their mat they are going to have a problem. But I suspect that the cold night air might be … educational … :-)
> What about hammock use?
I have never used a hammock, so I can't answer that very easily. :-) Obviously you would need a LOT of mat insulation under you.
> is girth measured the same in quilts and in sleeping bags?
Dunno. There are no Standards, so it's up to the manufacturer.
CheersFeb 25, 2011 at 12:58 pm #1701558Jason ElsworthBPL Member
@jephotoLocale: New Zealand
I have got a JRB No-Sniveller, which to me seems too narrow for side sleeping. I have added two sets of straps to it, to help keep it wrapped around me. I did try running the straps under the mat, but found that this was not particularly effective and caused problems as mentioned by Roger. Instead I now just use the straps over the top of the mat. One strap is made of fabric and another of thin shock cord so it has a bit of stretch in it. It works fairly well and having a bivy helps keep out the drafts. However, as soon as I can justify the cost I am going to get a wider quilt.Feb 26, 2011 at 4:20 am #1701762al bBPL Member
The pad adjustment seems clever (it remind me of Ray jardine idea):
are the clips custom made, or are they a standard part (which)?Feb 26, 2011 at 8:30 am #1701808John VanceBPL Member
@servingkoLocale: Intermountain West
Having lived with my Sawatch through this past winter I can say that I am still a BIG fan. As mentioned earlier, I too would ditch the adjustment strap and make the open up the foot/leg area down the back by at least 10 inches.
The "clips" appear to be the same as "mitten" clips that have come on a number of gloves and mittens that I have purchased over the years. The "tabs" and the quilt edge appear to be a custom item. I however, have yet to use the clips and straps. I am a tossing and turning side sleeper with a shoulder girth of 51" and 41" chest and have no problem with drafts. I use very small bungie cord straps that are attached to the bag only. I have a simple overhand knot at each end and then a couple several inches apart at one end and simply attach it to the flat sewn in tabs by stretching the bungie cord and slipping it into the slot. When tension is released, it stays put. This allows me to vary the girth, add flexibility for tossing and turning, and keeps everything together. Due to the warmth of the quilt, I find that unless it is in the 20's(f) or lower, I don't need them.
I have taken the Sawatch, a Kookabay downmat (R6 according to Bender), silk-weight long tops and bottoms, wool socks and cap, and my FF Hyperion down vest draped over me under the quilt, down to a minimum low of -5F. I was very comfortable but as always YMMV.
I have been to the Katabatic site many times and put the Crestone hood in my basket, but have yet to pull the trigger. I just haven't seemed to need it yet for sleeping. I would more than likely use it around camp in the evenings and mornings but just purchased a down hoody so I may never need it.
If I were doing it again and looking for one bag for all my use, I might be tempted to go with the yet to be released Alsek and the Crestone hood and augment my winter system with more of the clothing I already have with me.
I certainly understand those wanting more width, but I have found that the 3D contoured shape of the Katabatic to function as though it was wider than a simple flat quilt of the same width wrapped around you.
I have been playing with a MYOG quilt and have been slowing trimming the dimensions to see just how small I can go and still have functional utility that doesn't require significantly changing my sleeping style. At present I have girths of 40" top, 50" shoulder, 42" hip, and 37" foot. As a side note I do have the bungie cord straps deployed at a higher temp than the Sawatch to keep drafts out. It has 9 oz of down and 2" baffles. I have not been removing down as I take things in and currently have a pleasantly plump single layer loft of 2.5" and weight of 17oz.Feb 27, 2011 at 6:42 am #1702163john TierSpectator
@peter_panLocale: Co-Owner Jacks 'R' Better, LLC, VA
The No sniveller is narrow for side sleepers…Some 2 years ago, JRB intoduced the Sierra Serries of Sniveller style quilts specifically for the ground sleepers… It is wider at a full 52 inches all the way through the body area and passed the hip, then papers to 42 inches…It also has three small tabs in the body are that allows for securing the quilt close to the sleeper or around the pad, if desired…Normally and economically priced the same as the No Sniveller.
FWIW we concur with Roger that a quilt is best simply tucked under… That approach matches the simplistic approach and the basic design goal for quilts and is effective for most…
It is also woth noting that most who report tuck issues also describe themselves as "Toss and Turners" and on further inquirey are using thin/minimal pads.
perhaps the lesson here is that the pad really is a major player in the good night sleep as well as light conundrum…Alternatively, one might use the relative saving of a quilt over a full bag to increase the thickness/comfort of the pad and thus reduce the tossing and turning all leading to better sleep.
PanFeb 27, 2011 at 7:56 am #1702183John S.BPL Member
Pan, I toss and turn at home, so that does not necessarily have anything to do with the pad. What does the word "relative" mean on weight savings of a quilt over a "full" bag? Just curious ; ).Feb 27, 2011 at 12:35 pm #1702296Jason ElsworthBPL Member
@jephotoLocale: New Zealand
One of your ground sleeper quilts will definitely be on my list of possibles if I decide to replace the No-Sniveller. I have a trip coming up in about four weeks where I expect temps to go down to around 30F at night, and I will be using a bivy plus my Kooka Bay insulated mat, so it should be great for quilt testing. To date most of my trips using the No-Sniveller have been un-seasonably warm, except for one in the garden test, but this was without a bivy.Feb 27, 2011 at 1:19 pm #1702313
As John wrote:
> perhaps the lesson here is that the pad really is a major player in the good night sleep
> Alternatively, one might use the relative saving of a quilt over a full bag to increase
> the thickness/comfort of the pad and thus reduce the tossing and turning
A very good point too.
CheersMar 3, 2011 at 7:14 pm #1704174
Pertex Quantum Ripstop
Just how water resister / proof is this material?
Can a person go walking around in the hood somewhere in the PNW with full rain coming down, considering it is made out of Pertex Quantum, or is water going to go right through this material?
Thanks.Mar 3, 2011 at 7:57 pm #1704205Brad RogersBPL Member
@mocs123Locale: Southeast Tennessee
Pertex Quantum is not waterproof. It just has a DWR so a drop or two will roll off, but I wouldn't want it exposed to rain for more than a half second.Mar 3, 2011 at 8:01 pm #1704208
Thought so, just wanted to check and make sure something had not snuck in since I last checked.
Thanks.Mar 4, 2011 at 3:25 pm #1704535john TierSpectator
@peter_panLocale: Co-Owner Jacks 'R' Better, LLC, VA
I used the term "relative" to relate the savings of a quilt nominally 52 inches wide over a bag nominally 62 inches wide and having a zipper when all other things, ie type material, same fill, same loft are equal…The quilt will weigh less by proportion.
PanMar 8, 2011 at 10:11 am #1706085Rakesh Malik
"I used the term "relative" to relate the savings of a quilt nominally 52 inches wide over a bag nominally 62 inches wide and having a zipper when all other things, ie type material, same fill, same loft are equal…The quilt will weigh less by proportion."
That's very true. A lot of the folks on the Kilimanjaro trip two weeks ago were surprised at how light my Blackwelder was — most of the zero-degree bags on the trip weighed close to 4 pounds.
It was plenty warm. I'd recommend it if you're looking for a zero-degree bag. I used it with a Crestone hood.Feb 11, 2012 at 5:27 pm #1838172Anthony WestonBPL Member
@anthonywestonLocale: Southern CA
I don't own a Sawatch quilt but I slept in one. The clips are well worth getting used to; I'm a cold sleeper and they stop the drafts and make it very close to sleeping in a bag. I compared the Sawatch to 15 degree Marmot Helium. The Sawatch was quite a bit warmer, it had more loft and was cut narrower. I'm 44" at the chest; it was regular Sawatch. The Helium had more comfort, the roomy cut meant it didn't heat up as fast in warmer weather but it also 32 oz instead of 24 oz and you can always let the quilt drap over you without the clips/snaps. The quality of Sawatch is top of the line, bar none. Quilts are great just because you can seal the warmth in at your neck and no condensation from your breath gets in the bag.Jun 23, 2012 at 6:16 pm #1889593Kenneth LottsBPL Member
@aa7jcLocale: SE AZ
I bought this quilt a month ago for a trip into the Absoroka-Beartooth Wilderness. The trip got cut short but I did use the quilt for about 8 nights just car camping. I am 5'9" and weigh about 160.
I was a bit worried based on the comments in the review that the quilt would be annoyingly narrow but when it arrived I was relieved that it was more than adequate for me. On the trip I never even bothered to use the supplied clips.
The only thing I can say negative is that it is very pricey but on the flip side, it is very well made and well designed.. I did not feel cheated.
Again this is good gear.
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