Tarptent Hogback or Black Diamond Guiding Light?

My 2 cents:

For Winter only, the BD would be probably be better.

For the rest of year, the TT will likely be better.

Trade-offs will have to be made on either end, but I'd likely go with the TT on paper.

I’m looking at a similar decision. My wife and I will go with two of our daughters on the JMT this summer. My wife insists for several reasons in a double walled tent.

We narrowed our choices down to the Hogback from Tarptent and the Fly Creek UL4 from Big Agnes.

Going by the descriptions and photos it seems like the advantages of the Hogback are more livable space and two vestibules. The advantage of the Fly Creek UL4 seems to be that it is freestanding.

I too don’t want to make a $400 mistake. So any and all input is highly welcome.

I own a Hogback. It's a great tent, but it is rather vulnerable to high winds. You'd want to guy out the main pole at the sides and even at the very top in those high elevation winds. (All of these points have a supplied guyline attachment.) You'd probably want to guy out the mid-panel pole attachment points to trekking poles or branches also, even with an extra pole. It's a big tent with large wind-facing panels. I use MSR Groundhog stakes because the supplied Easton stakes have a bad habit of self-decapitation. I coated each side of the floor with a diluted silicone caulk mixture to reduce slipperiness and increase waterproofing. I wouldn't worry too much about the warmth provided by a tent. That really needs to come from the sleeping bag, pad, and clothing to allow for sufficient venting in conditions when condensation might be an issue.

The Epic fabric of the BD will wet-out in a day-long rain. That's OK for cold, rainless winter, but not well-suited to three season use.

Were it not for the Epic fabric, I'd go with the BD. There's a good review of the BD on this site for a paid subscription.

Consider the large mids made by Oware, Golite (Shangri-La 5), and the MSR Twin Brothers. You'd have to come up with your own bug netting solution to all but the SL-5 though.

I own a Hogback, Scarp 2, and Golite SL-3. Our family of 6 (4 young kids) sleeps in a Hogback + one of the other tents. We'd prefer to all sleep in one tent, so we're likely going to get a MSR Twin Brothers with floor, and I'm going to sew in noseeum netting.

To echo what Chris and Andy said…to me the black diamond tents are only 1 season tents. Specifically, they are suitable for dry cold winters only. For 3-season use you can find lighter and more waterproof tents (like the hogback you mentioned). Have you checked out the big anges fly creek ul4? It's in your price range and light for a double wall 4-person tent, but I have no clue on its true suitability or habitability for 4. Your kids are presumably small right now, so it might work. But since you mentioned that humidity is low, you'll likely be fine with the single skinned hogback, which is the same weight and cheaper. It'll be less windstable than the fly creek ul4, but it does offer 2 doors for comfort. The 1 door for 4 people on the ul4 seems like a disaster waiting to happen

The single door on the BA makes it a non-starter.

My wife spent a little more time looking at the pics of the Hogback and she isn't really wild about the layout and vestubles. As I mentioned, she really like the BD as far as function goes.

The climate where we spend most of our time is generally dry, other than the frequent rain in the San Juans. I can only think of one instance in the past 8 or 9 years where we've been out in rain that lasted all day. That certainly doesn't mean it won't happen, though.

I appreciate all of the feedback/suggestions!

The BA Lynx Pass 4 seems somewhat similar to the BD tent you were looking at, and around 8 lbs:

http://www.bigagnes.com/Products/Detail/Tent/lynxpass4

Jeremy, sometimes you just have to go with the gut. If you guys are going towards the BD, just remember that you need to seamseal the hell out of the tent (read on these forums about the diluted silicone method) and even then, you might have wetting out during hard sustained rains. The thing that the BD has going for it is the windstability. Those cross poles are going to do wonders. I just spent a couple nights this pastweekend in my recently acquired blackdiamond firstlight and it was awesome in 30+mph winds, even without guying out the sides (4 corners staked only). Did you have a chance to setup the BD in the store or did it come setup? It's a bit tricky to set the tent up since all poles go on in the inside, and you have to be careful about pole placement. A misplaced pole can and will go through the ground fabric. Also, depending on how little your kids are, you might want to hold off on the vestibules for now. You might be able to stash all the gear at their footend if they are short enough. By itself the tent is light, but when you start adding on the vestibules etc, it adds up quickly

Also, the thing about warmth…your absolutely right that the BD are warm because of their single walls, but in reality, you're going to want to open up the doors to let in a decent draft. On my firstlight, I only had the maindoor opened up 7 inches or so, and the backvent partially open. I didn't want to have it open any more because it was a cold night. I had a lot of frosted condensation buildup throughout the night as a result. It practically snowed inside my tent everytime a windgust hit me. It was about 5-10 degrees where I was, and colder with windchill

My firstlight uses the nanoshield fabric and not EPIC. It's suppose to be more waterproof but im pretty sure it comes with the cost of less breathability. Maybe the older EPIC fabric tents are less prone to condensation because of their porousness, and won't require as much ventilation. Then, again, i've read that EPIC performs horribly in terms of breathability when temperatures are well below freezing (Ryan J article on BPL i believe)

Here is my video on the Hogback :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P8zqZnP-bE
Franco
(however I would try to keep the wife happy….)

Konrad, thank you very much for the info. We set the tent up in the store. I think it will take a little getting used to, but I didn't find it difficult. The clips on the vestuble were a pain, Bibler could have made the loops a little longer to speed things up. I think I'll tie little string loops to them so I can pull them tight to slip the clips inside. I don't know whethter the EPIC fabric will breathe better than your tent or not; it seems some people really like it and others don't. We don't aniticipate using the it in sub-freezing temps until the girls are quite a bit older and better able to handle it.

I'd like to clarify that I understand tents aren't designed to retain heat. My thought is that having the tops of each door on the BD to promote airflow and limit condensation will be more comfortable for the girls than wind coming through the bottom of the TT during gusty weather. Thoughts?

Franco, thank you for the video! I think it's awesome that you took the time to do that, and it gives a new perspective.

I know there will be give and take for any tent, and I appreciate all of the feedback.

Jeremy
no need to thank me, I am part of Tarptent…
(however I do those videos for my own fun , particularly when I am really bored)
To speed up the setting up of the BD, I recommend pegging it down first, much easier that way (for me…)
See this :
http://www.youtube.com/user/francodarioli?feature=mhum#p/a/u/5/RRLu0nsYfuE

I had not set up that tent for some time so had forgotten how the cross pole went in.
(hence the fumbling)
Franco