Help me reach a sub 5lb base weight

[Sam Haraldson]

I have backpacked between 20 and 100 nights per year over the past five or six years. Before that I was a four or five nights per year type of backpacker. In 2005 I started pairing down my weight and did a 200 mile hike in a lightweight style (average daily mileage 18). By 2007 I was into the ultralight weight range and took an ultralight kit on a 1,200 mile thru-hike with a daily average of 20miles. In 2008 I finalized my my first SUL kit and did some hikes with it.

A number of good resources for looking into what other hikers have had success with are posted above. I have had success with my sub-five pound list but it has only worked for me on the warmest of nights or at lower elevations where I can trust the temperatures.

Insulation seems to be the one thing my SUL and near-SUL gear lists don't have enough of. For this reason I have backed off the sub-five list and prefer to carry around eight pounds of gear on my trips now. I can use an eight pound gear list just as easily on an overnighter as I can on a 2,500 mile thru-hike. It's pretty cool how versatile a list of what is still VERY little weight can be.

I think that finding your way down to and being able to safely use a SUL gear kit is an excellent goal. Once there you have the option to realize you can easily add back to your list two, three, or four pounds of safety, comfort, et al and still be hauling one of the lightest packs of anyone else you're camping with. Now that's the freedom of ultralight.

[James Marco]

"I think that finding your way down to and being able to safely use a SUL gear kit is an excellent goal. Once there you have the option to realize you can easily add back to your list two, three, or four pounds of safety, comfort, et al and still be hauling one of the lightest packs of anyone else you're camping with. Now that's the freedom of ultralight."

Excelent Post!! Yeah, that is pretty much my feelings. I struggled with getting my gear small and light, but never quite hit the SUL range for anything longer than an overnight on a fishing trip. Other than that, I just added stuff back that was more comfort driven. Full bag, rather than half bag…it just works better when I get an unexpected cold night. But it adds another 10oz. Same for my shirt. I used to figure I could get by with a 12oz down sweater, it works, but during the rain and for so-so days, it is easier to have a light weight fleece…another 11oz. A 5' tarp was OK, but a 9' tarp was a lot drier, another 8oz. I added stuff back till I am now at between 9 and 11 pounds, base. Most trips of 5 nights are easy with less than 20 pounds, even the ADK High Peaks doing a Bear Ball.

I did a High peaks trip with two others last year and came back with 15 pounds, including trail garbage, shelter, water treatment, some extra food and a bear ball for everybody. They still carried about ten pounds more than I did. They ARE learning, though. When my brother-in-law went with me the first time (5 years ago,) he carried a 43 pound pack. This year he was only about ten pounds heavier than I was.

[Jamie Shortt]

Mike, Sounds like you are getting lots of good advice. Since a number of items look similar to mine I was wondering if you are using my spreadsheet. Would love to know if someone is actually using the thing. If not here is the a link to it.

LytW8_Gear_Lists

If you download the spreadsheet it has tabs for transition (~12 lb), basic UL (7 lbs), and advanced (5 lb). The transition still uses a tent. The basic is tarp but gear from gear from REI & Backcountry, while the advanced list requires you to buy from cottage gear makers.

I am the Ion 5 lb guy linked to earlier. As Chris points out its important to know what you are trying to do before doing it (I liked your response) and its also important to recognize that its not just about buying new gear. More importantly its about aquiring new skills. To do my first 5 lb trip I studied and practiced and read alot to prepare. It was also a journey that started went from 25 to 14 to 12 to 7 to 5 lb trips. I think the most impressive part about the original 5 pound list was it did not include any cottage gear. Ion for pack, montbell thermal sheet for bag, montbell drytech bivy, golite poncho tarp, etc. I still didnt know enough about the cottage shops to buy gear from them at that time.

Since then I have experimented with a lot of cottage gear and now use my own MYOG gear for most of what I do. I am similar to Sam in the I move to a 6.5 lb kit for sub freezing temps. My summer kit (40 degree +) is actually closer to 4.5 lbs. But both include a GPS.

You have all the right items listed. I would suggest making sure you know how to use each item. I like to travel far and solo and in doing so you don't have any room for error. Its just you and if you don't know how to use something or forget something it can turn out not so good.

If you are still looking to drop weight I really recommend Ryan J's chapter 15 of Lightweight Backpacking and Camping (article version available online). I'm certain I have read this chapter 20-30 times. I think it is the most amazing piece of work ever done for backpacking.

Your best opportunities to drop weight cheaply might be first with the pack. Probably the cheapest options are a zpacks zero or GG murmur. If you can find an Ion you can probably use it. If you can get the cash I think the best is the MLD burn or prophet. If you sew consider a Ray Jardine pack.

The other place to save weight is in the bag (if you want lower temps), but this gets expensive. My "best" bag from a weight to warm ratio is my Nunatak custom ghost weighing in at 15.55 oz capabale of 20 degrees (extra down, custom sizing, .8 oz pertex). But this is a heavy price.

Next you may want to consider a different jacket, my MB UL down inner has been amazing, kept me warm on 20 degree mornings. Another MYOG option is the Thru-hiker kinsman pullover. This is one great sythetic jacket if you can sew, I love mine. Lastly you might want to consider changing approaches to a poncho tarp. If you do this you can swtich out rain gear for only a winshirt. You can save several ounces this way. Might want to consider the ID silponcho or Golite Poncho tarp.

Best of luck,
Jamie

[Mike Hopkins]

You caught me Jamie, I did base my gear list off your list originally. I usesd the one from your article originally and than switched to one of the ones on your website. Judging from the rest of your post I should provide some background.

I started backpacking about 12 years ago. I have been trying to lighten my weight for about 6 years, and found backpackinglight.com about four years ago, I think after reading an article in backpacker about ultralight backpacking. Thats when I started browsing these forms and using its tips to lighten my pack significantly. Three years ago I bought "the book". I can't remember if I read the chapter on SUL or saw your sub 5 list but I was inspired. Either way I have read that chapter,and the book for that matter many times. I have also read your articles about your journey to lightweight a few times as well, good stuff. Around that time I got a membership to the site, but I had to let it expire this year because I couldn't afford the 20 bucks right now.

I have been working on my system all a long and trying different things on each trip. I have had between an 9 and 6 pound base weight for almost two years now. I feel I truly am ready for a 5 pound base weight. I know how to use the gear I have and am competent in any situations I face.
This form also inspired me to really experiment with Myog stuff, I am now the head sewing lab instructor at the university I am attending for outdoor recreation. Lots of my gear is either made by me from scratch or highly modified, ie my pack. Unlike you I haven't had the opportunity to use cottage manufactured gear. I really want a MLD Burn, and I think it might be in the cards this summer. Your MYOG summer quilt on your website looks really awesome, and I might try to make one before the spring if I can afford it. (I check your website regularly, there is some awesome and inspiring stuff on there). I also mentioned earlier that I might add a hood to my tarp, (ie poncho tarp) but I don't know if I can commit to not having a rain jacket. I will make that decision soon enough.

Looks like my best best is to wait till I have money for a burn, or make my own pack, a lighter rain jacket/ make a poncho tarp, and than buying a Montbell UL inner. Thanks very much for your input. One question, what do you think about adding down to my synthetic quilt and keeping the synthetic insulation in? I thought it might be an easy way to add a little bit of extra warmth to the bag, without a lot of modification.
Thanks again

[Misfit Mystic]

Hi Mike, I don't think stuffing down into your quilt will help at all. The down will end up matted into the synthetic insulation the first time it's compressed.

A better idea might be to make a light down quilt. A sewn-thru baffle quilt is pretty easy to sew up, could be used inside your synthetic for a nice layered sleeping setup for cold weather, and would be great in the summer alone. The small stuff size won't adversely affect packing; I find a light quilt can be stuffed into the nooks and crannies inside my pack liner, providing a nice compression effect. Also makes a nice sound insulator so i don't hear random rattles from my cookset.

Jamie's quilt is sweet! but expensive, so is the myog M50 quilt. M90 is pricy, M50 is really pricy, and the 900fp down is pricy. If however you were to use generic 1.1 DWR ripstop seconds and 800fp, a summer quilt could be made for around $75, depending on dimensions and loft.

Good luck on your goal my friend!

[Jamie Shortt]

Mike, I truly appreciate your reply. I am glad to hear you could use some of my stuff to help. It sure sounds like you are on your own journey as well and ready to try to go farther. You have the skills part down and you went right to MYOG, awesome!

From the quilt perspective I think Scott's reply was right on. I have never experimented with adding down to synthetic although the idea has crossed my mind a couple of times. I was mainly thinking about as best a best of both worlds…lightness of down for 50% of insulation and wet performance of synthetic for the other 50%. My concern would be how the down would distribute across the quilt. Since you are watching your "coins" I would consider it hard before doing it. Why? it might not work out well then you can't sell the original quilt and the down is wasted too. I would wait to do it until I found someone else who has done it and it works. Of course that is not much of a pioneer spirit either, its always neat to be the first.

I'm in agreement with Scott and think your cheapest option is a MYOG down quilt. It will be hard to get a quilt that will go below freezing without premium materials but you will get close. backwoodsdaydreamer.com uncoated ripstop 2nds is by far the cheapest I've seen. You will have materials on par with JRB for performance and weight. I would consider keeping it as narrow as possible, making 1.5" baffles and adding 9 oz of down. You should get a solid 30 degree quilt. Par it with down jacket and hat and you should be able to get to 20 degrees fine in a pinch. Quilt would weigh about 18 oz.

If you end up with a hood pattern for a poncho I sure would like to see it. I haven't seen any MYOG poncho tarps and am planning to do one myself.

At the 5-6 lb range you would be surprised how well a real simply pack can work. I have found that I don't need a sternum strap or belt of any kind, YMMV. In this case you can make a big stuff sack, but rectangular at the bottom. Rough dimensions would be 6" x 10" by 30" tall. You add shoulder straps and a pocket and you have a sub 8 oz pack even using 2.0 oz coated ripstop.

If you see a burn on the horizon then by all means consider staying on that track. I still consider my MLD prophet to be the best pack I have ever owned. I will say for most trips I take it is a bit oversized, but when I bought it the burn wasn't out yet. So if you want the perfect pack for your 5 lb gear go with the burn.

Again thanks for the reply, you made my day.

Jamie

[todd]

Jamie,

You have inspired many hikers on this forum to dig deeper and lighten the load!

I remember when you wrote about your 5lb Ion trip – light bulbs turned on all across the country! Your style of writing helps the reader.

Thank you for taking the time it takes to share the little details of what you do.

Todd

[Joseph Morrison]

Ditch the stakes and razor blade and take a knife. I am sure you can find a knife with a 3" blade that weighs less than your tent stakes and razor blade. Think of all the things you can make with a knife that could supplement your gear.

Unless your a hygene freak or your teeth cannot survive a few days without brushing leave the toothpaste and brush in the truck.

Joseph

[Mike Hopkins]

Totally agree, Jamie your articles are very inspiring. Looks like a MYOG quilt is in my future. Thanks for all the help everyone.

[Nick Gatel]

Why? I think Chris asks a good question.

Click on my profile for a sub-4 list, and I can even go lighter in colder weather with my Enlighten cuben quilt (2" loft) and my graham cracker cone set-up, both of which I bought after that trip. I have done many, many 2 & 3 night (and a few longer) trips under 5lbs. But to be honest, adding food and water can easily bring total pack weight above 15lbs and the UL packs are not comfortable… yeah, talk yourself into believing it is.

It is a good exercise to see what you can do, but I would much rather carry a more substantial pack and be completely comfortable with a base weight above 5 lbs.

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