Canister Stoves.

One problem of gas cannister stoves has not come up yet.
Although they are very reliable on the long run you face on problem: The thread on the stove will wear out and then you won't be able to screw down the stove onto the cannister tight enough any more. This of course only tends to happen in the middle of nowhere were you cannot get any replacement…

But seriously now: I have had two MSR pocket rockets and they both had the same problem and became useless. I changed to a Snow Peak then and never had this issue again.

But you should keep in mind NOT to screw the stove on too tightly and make sure the thread is not dirty and gets damaged.

Paul,
I've been using the LiteMax this last season, and have really been happy with it. From canoe camping to backpacking, its a great stove, especially for two. I like the flexibility of the pot holder, either unfolding it, or not, based on pot size, and its a very efficient stove. It will also simmer! I took a full cannister, and just boiled water to see what it did for fuel use. Here's my results. I did this with winter cold water out of my tap in Idaho, outside temps in the teens. I did it inside, with no wind, but have experienced almost identical results in the field, making sure to use a wind screen, and to protect the stove; all basic cooking and stove use protocols. One item to remember,(ask me how I found out?) if you use a large cannister, check your wind screen! The stove height off the ground is considerably higher, and your std screen might not even reach the stove flame!
The table shows amount of time to boil, beginning wt of cannister, end weight of cannister, and net use of fuel per boil(in oz.). Obviously its best case scenario, but still a baseline is a good place to start. Hope it helps.

1 liter of water reaching at least 200 degrees using GSI Soloist pot and lid

1 liter
9 min 7.1 6.3 0.8
7m 45s 6.3 5.8 0.5
7m 36s 5.8 5.5 0.3
7m 55s 5.5 4.9 0.6
8m 4.9 4.4 0.5
7m 25s 4.4 3.9 0.5
8m 16s 3.9 3.4 0.5
4m 20s 3.4 3.0 0.4

Total Burn Time 60.28m
the last burn only reached 130 degrees before the cannister ran out.

Total Burn Time 60.28m, using the 4.1 cannister. 3.88 net fuel wt.

I've found that with partially used cannisters, I just weigh them when I get home, mark on the can with a sharpie how many more "boils" I can get, and use that can for a trip where that amount of fuel is applicable.

final note:after each boil I rinsed the pot in cold water to start each new boil with cold and "new" pot temps.

Our high altitude fuel is of two types. Above 7000 metres/23,000 feet we use imported propane/butane 250 gramme canisters.

" Below 7000 metres/23,000 feet we refill the canisters with propane gas."

I noticed this at Summitclimb.com, and was wondering if anyone has info or necessary valve for doing this stateside.( I know this is considered unsafe and against the law) I would like to try this out.

You would need to know what canister type (valve type) they are refilling. Some RV people refill the 1 lb propane canisters (also dangerous), I think with fittings from Cabelas.

I have been refilling 1 lb. cylinders for years. Works great. They only fill about 60% of new, and I only refill them about 10 times before they go to recycle or shooting range as targets. I figure the valve will start leaking at some point.

stephan

"Pocket Rocket – very focused flame, burns food. Pot supports fragile/bendy. Stove too high and unstable."

Roger, we've heard that many times from you.

How is it that I've used my oldest Pocket Rocket for about ten years now, and the pot support arms are just fine? Mine doesn't seem to burn food, and it doesn't seem to tip over? What is it that I'm missing?

I admit, I always carry it in the red plastic box for protection.

–B.G.–

One of the arms on my PR got bent. They do bend pretty easily. I don't normally keep my in the red plastic box. YMMV.

HJ

It is not effecient, however, if you keep your canister warm or insulated while cooking. Keeping it warm only helps to get it going in the cold.

I don't believe that's correct. You want to keep the canister warm throughout its use. Indeed, canisters are famous for "canister fade" (pronounced lack of pressure toward the end of the canister). Keeping the canister warm will reduce canister fade.

You do want to be careful with insulating a canister. Insulation is a two way street. Insulation could lock in the cold if your canister is colder than the outside air.

If you fly into Reno, there is an REI within walking distance of the airport.

Now, that's good to know.

HJ

"Our high altitude fuel is of two types. Above 7000 metres/23,000 feet we use imported propane/butane 250 gramme canisters. Below 7000 metres/23,000 feet we refill the canisters with propane gas."

I noticed this at Summitclimb.com, and was wondering if anyone has info or necessary valve for doing this stateside.( I know this is considered unsafe and against the law) I would like to try this out.

You can get a canister refiller on eBay. The one I got refills standard threaded canisters from the inexpensive 100% butane cans that the restaurant industry uses which I get for $1.00 each. I use the butane for temps above 40F. The refiller and the butane work fine.

If you want to refill using propane, I think you're doing something really dangerous. Refilling with 100% butane means I'm putting a lower pressure fuel into the can that once held a propane/isobutane/butane mix. Refilling with 100% propane means that you're refilling with a higher pressure fuel. That sounds like a really bad idea. Just how much pressure can a standard threaded backpacking canister hold? Just how much pressure will you have inside your canister after you fill it with propane?

The 100% butane canisters I'm using for refilling are 8oz (230g) each. The canisters I'm refilling are either 4oz (110g) or 8oz (230g) each. It's relatively easy for me to refill even the smaller size without overfilling because a) the butane isn't super high pressure and b) the difference in size between the tanks isn't overly large. If I fill an 4oz container from an 8oz container and simply leave the tap open, the pressures will equalize fairly quickly and neither container will hold more than 4oz of fuel. Relatively safe.

However, if refilling from a large BBQ type propane tank, the pressure differential is quite large and the difference in size of the tanks is quite large. You could easily overfill your 4 or 8 oz backpacking canister very rapidly, which could result in a canister failure right then and there or later, say when it's in your trunk in the sun as you drive to the trailhead. Can you say KABOOM!?

Believe me, I've tried to think of safe ways to refill with propane because right now I can only create "summer" canisters. Still, my summer canisters cost me $1.00 each vs. $5.00+ for store bought canisters. I only have to use store bought canisters for colder weather. I refill for my friends and family, so I think over time I'll save enough to justify the relatively high cost of the refilling device. I mark each canister after each refill. I plan to refill only ten times before recycling any given canister.

I can also custom fill my canisters. If I know I'm only out for a quick overnighter, I can take a 110g canister and load it with 50g if that's what I calculate I need. Or if I am out for a three day weekend and figure 110g is too small but 230g is too large, I can custom fill to 180g (for example). Kinda nice.

I inspect the canisters before each refill, I refill outdoors away from flame, I mark my canisters and limit the refills to ten each, and I verify the amount of fill using a gram scale. I think I'm taking reasonable precautions. I bought the refiller I think six months ago. So far so good.

HJ

!. set full canister in water and note water line (tilt to purge air from concave bottom)
2. mark water line of full canister
3. repeat process with partially used canister to find approx. remaining fuel

This is the most effective FIELD method I know.

As Christine wrote:

> The thread on the stove will wear out and then you won't be able to screw down the stove onto the
> cannister tight enough any more.
Yup, happens. Like in the middle of one of my European 3-month-long walks.
Fortunately, when that happens the system is fail-SAFE. The stove no longer works the valve in the canister.

Cheers

As Jim wrote:

> If you want to refill using propane, I think you're doing something really dangerous.
Make that really, really dangerous.

The canister is rated to a certain pressure (by law). You need a safety margin to handle the odd bit of bright sun and knock. Fill with 100% propane and you are pushing the ultimate pressure limit, not the far lower safety limit. The potential is there for a terminal experience.

(Note: if you could be absolutely sure that the canister would never get above 0 C it might be a tolerable risk, but remember that this game does not permit weasel words or political hedging.)

Also read http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/exploding_gas_canisters_the_hazard_of_overheating.html

Cheers

"One of the arms on my PR got bent. They do bend pretty easily. I don't normally keep my in the red plastic box."

You just outlined the very fault.

–B.G.–