Kooka Bay

Ditto on Nick. At this point the excuse better be a tragedy else there is none.

Lawson. Buy the equipment and technique. I'd buy from you. You have been solid in my dealings and I trust it with your name on it.

Lawson,

Or just purchase the designs and leftover materials, raw material contacts, etc. and not all the existing baggage. Rename or rebrand the product line and move forward helping and supporting the new customers you gain from your good reputation.

The existing owner (Bender) needs to personally make good on all outstanding product and debt on his own time and dime, and I see no reason why you would want all the baggage since you would be losing money on the warranties, backordered goods and unhappy existing customers. You didn't get paid on those past products or customers, and aren't in business to lose time and money on something you had no control over.

If you choose to take over all the existing customer issues, you'd better get the company and all associated content for close to free.

Burned out or not, I feel for the current customers are getting hosed, but as a new business owner, you need to start from scratch if you wish to enter that segment and only honor warranties and orders from the day you acquired the business, and not retroactively. I understand goodwill can go a long way in gaining new customers, but each warranty item or backorder you supply is out of your own pocket and this could put you out of business before you even get started.

My defense of Bender was simply based on my past dealings with him. However, I agree that he needs to act fast right now on refunds/returns! He'll never sell the business with those liabilities (and possible legal action) hanging over him!

Kooka Bay mats are a quality product that fill a niche that nobody else is attempting to fill. I agree that his methods, equipment and materials would be a good investment, but they are losing value every day that he remains out of contact with the world!

EDIT, LATER: Bender's prices and weights were comparable to the NeoAir (which for me is highly uncomfortable thanks to the horizontal baffles), so I would disagree with Mike's statement. Plus his customized pads were a unique product.

If i was Lawson, i would give this a miss.
The 'big guns' have their sights set on the UL pad market, and you'll never beat their price point.

"Now would we have that attitude towards BP or Goldman Sachs?"

No, because I don't have a relationship with BP or Goldman Sachs. I value relationships, and I'm willing to give a little extra to those with whom I have them. While I don't know Bender personally, I've chatted with him on this site, I've chatted with him via email, and I've purchased from him in the past. All of those communications have been positive experiences. To me, this means something. May mean nothing to you.

Obviously, my attitude/feelings could change with additional information. We don't have that yet, so rather than quickly abandon a friendly relationship, I'm willing to wait until I find out more.

"Unless Bender is dead, in a coma, or in a foreign prison he has not acted with integrity"

That's what I love about you Nick, your steadfast black and white take on the world. Me, I like all those interesting shades of gray you're missing out on. ;-)

That's what I love about you Nick, your steadfast black and white take on the world. Me, I like all those interesting shades of gray you're missing out on. ;-)

Oh my hair and beard have lots of shades of gray :)

del

"I am sure many very smart folks said the same thing about Bernie Madoff, Allen Stanford, et all. There is a reason they are called 'confidence men.' "

Although I made some harsh statements/judgments (which I stand by), I don't think Bender falls into that category. He probably never intended not to live up to his word, but something has happened and if he threw in the towel without taking care of those commitments, then he somehow lost his moral compass. And perhaps (we don't know) something happened and he cannot communicate to his customers at this point in time.

Hopefully there is a good reason for him not taking care of business, he is okay, and he will make it right. Always hope for the best.

>He probably never intended not to live up to his word, but something has happened and if he threw in the towel without taking care of those commitments, then he somehow lost his moral compass. And perhaps (we don't know) something happened and he cannot communicate to his customers at this point in time. Hopefully there is a good reason for him not taking care of business, he is okay, and he will make it right. Always hope for the best.

This is where I stand until I learn the truth. I know some people got screwed and have a right to be upset, but I'm giving the benefit of the doubt given the odd circumstances.

del

I sent him an email at the end of last year and no response. Now, for the last several days, there is nothing showing up on his site, like it's closed down. I guess he is gone.

Is there another comparable creator of made-to-order sleeping pads or are we talking the big-market guts now?

I just got a PayPal refund from Kookabay for the full amount. No note nor explanation attached.

Whatever troubles Bender is having, integrity does not seem to be one of them.

I wish him well.

This is at least a good sign! Hopefully everything works out for all parties.

I was sure the refunds would be forthcoming!

I just hope that someone will buy out his materials and techniques and continue making those wonderful pads. There is definitely a market niche for the pads he was making, which are not duplicated by any of the biggest manufacturers. The closest is Exped, but their pads are heavier and not as thick.

> The closest is Exped, but their pads are heavier and not as thick.
The older ones are heavier, but check out the Synmat UL 7. My wife pinched mine…

Cheers

But what about a lightweight WIDE pad?

Or a lightweight WiIDE pad that is SHORT? I wound up with an Exped Downmat 9 in order to get the width, but am stuck with a ridiculous amount of extra length as I'm only 62" tall. I don' t need a 77" long pad! And I'm not comfortable with cutting down such an expensive pad myself, as the only thing worse than an overly-long and overly-heavy down mat is a ruined down mat.

Kooka Bay was definitely serving a real market niche. It would be great if someone stepped up to fill that niche now that it looks like Kooka Bay is folding.

Exped is just releasing a UL version of their downmat. Starting to show up at distributors and I think it goes official in March. It will be available in long/wide. 26.5oz for the downmat ul7 long/wide

One example I found:
http://www.backcountrygear.com/exped-downmat-ul-7.html

My Kooka Bay pad is 20" x 60" x 3.5", mummy style. Its Climashield insulation is twice as thick as I've felt in any other pad. Yet it weighs only 12.9 oz. There is definitely no other pad maker offering such a comfortable and warm pad at that light weight!

Yes, Mary, this thread has had me kicking myself that I didn't get a pad like yours from Bender when I had the opportunity. I wanted to wait around and see what the new NeoAir offerings would be like, and so unknowingly aced myself out of the Kookabay option. The POE I bought before I saw you post about your order from him is light, and exceedingly comfy as far as cushioning, but it feels like next to no insulation.

I too hope that someone picks up where Bender left off with the business. It would be a shame for what he achieved in pads to disappear from the market.

Well, I'm not sure what to think now. I did receive a full refund from Kooka Bay after hearing nothing for over three months. Like others I cannot decide if there were extenuating circumstances which are none of my business, or if someone brought pressure to bear and the guy finally did the right thing. I suppose I'll never know. Too bad…he really filled a niche that really isn't being met with many options right now.

Although I'm not happy with the experience, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt with some reluctance.

I'm very glad to see that things are slowly starting to happen with customer refunds. This means that somebody is aware of the problem and is trying to rectify it.

It still would be nice to hear from the man himself, especially since he was such an active member before.

I have a small separation in the seam of a Kookabay pad. You might just be able to get a small round tooth-pick in the gap. Any suggestions on how to re-seal it? Best glue or sealant?

Almost fixed it on the trail with a bit of leukotape. Almost. Man that stuff is tough. What's the best way to get it back off? Spent the night at Pecks Corner shelter and then Cosby on the boards. At least it wasn't the cold hard ground.

A little snowy at Pecks. This was around December 15th.

>

I believe Benders pads are made out of a heat-sealable nylon so you could probably just heat the material and reseal the seam. He just used a clothes iron to construct his first few pads before moving onto a heat roller or whatever. If you search for his myog thread he probably has some tips.

Any new news from anyone concerning Bender?

Does his Phone # work? If it does, Lawson will you PM it to me so I may attempt to get my pad back?

I should just give up but every time I think about it I just start to wonder…