Pack size?

I use my GoLite Dawn for trips up to 3-4 days. I never have to shove things in tightly. I can do this because (1) I use a high fp down bag and (2) I stash my 2-pound tent up high — secured by the pack’s top compression strap — thus freeing up a lot of space inside.

I use my 2,800 ci MS Ghost for 3-season trips up to one week. Again, the tent is attached outside, this time using the pack’s 2 bottom compression straps.

I always prefer to attach my tent on the outside for the ability to set up or pack away the tent without disturbing or even opening up the pack itself.

Yes, my sleeping bag is the biggest offender. I could squeeze it a little more, but I really don’t want to kill the loft. I could see doing 3-4 day summer trips and having it be just right.

At the moment I am using one of the hybrid Torsolite/foam pads and it could be stashed outside. With the two vertical stuff sacks, I really don’t need the pad for a good rigid setup. My “tent” is a Gatewood Cape Shelter, so that isn’t taking up much space.

I’m going to try a Jam pack too. The figures published by GoLite are confusing– my impression was that the Jam is just a little bigger than the Dawn, but I’ve never seen them side-by-side. I’ll have my hands on one in a couple days and find out. If I can get the sleeping bag in sideways, I think it will give me more efficient space. 6 or 8 liters extra space would make it easy.

For the smallest of my packs, I wasn’t able to have everything stuffed in its own bag, and realized really how compressable some of my gear was while stuffing it into the sides of a full pack. Sil nylon tarp and a BMW bivy are two great items that somehow find a spot, unless you stuff them in their own stuff sack and create more bulk.

Then again this could all be in my head…mass doesn’t really change like that does it?

Try using a pack liner instead of the waterproof stuff sacks, except for your sleeping bag. Put this in first, then, you can stuff whatever else you have around that. Makes for more to pay attention to, but it works for me.

Hi Dale:
Like Ben, I own a Ghost but mine is the large at about 34 oz. I, too, strap the tent (usually the Rainbow with CF pole) to the outside. My base pack weight without any consumables is 14 lbs. That includes some comfort items like my mp3 player and my inflatable downmat shorty and a small digital camera. I still have room for a small bear canister inside with 5 nights of food. In reading your post, I think the real problem is that Fleece you own is a real hog on space. It’s difficult to compress. Maybe look to get a Montbell thermawrap top and bottom or even the down versions. I know that is asking you to buy more stuff, but isn’t that what we all do anyway. Most of us are gear heads on this site always looking for the next oz to drop and spending to get it. You also did not indicate if you use compression stuff sacks. If you don’t the really efficient intregal gear ones are light and really crank stuff down. That makes a difference in my packing.

Reduce and eliminate. To fit suff in a smaller space you have to buy smaller stuff (down/synth insul instead of the fleece) or bring less stuff. And if you’re not willing to give up comfort items (totally acceptable) then you’re just going to have to size your pack to fit it all. I can fit most solo short trips in under 1500cubic inches (heck in 1000cubic inches for a weekend) but the minute we start talking about bringing luxuries for the wife I can pack out 2x2000cubic inches *easily*.

Plus when you talk about winter that’s a lot more bag/clothes so I have to use a bigger pack. I guess I just can’t get by with 1 size pack fits all. Lots of rambling, I don’t know if that was helpful at all.

Chris wrote, “I can fit most solo short trips in under 1500cubic inches (heck in 1000cubic inches for a weekend) but the minute we start talking about bringing luxuries for the wife I can pack out 2x2000cubic inches *easily*”.

I knew there was a reason why I remained single!

Mitchell wrote: “I think the real problem is that Fleece you own is a real hog on space…”

Yes, even though it is Power Stretch (more like 100w fleece), it does take room.

Lets look at my wardrobe. Keep in mind this is for Winter, 45F to freezing and covering to 20F just to make sure. Rain is assumed, snow possible.

Base/worn:
Silk weight long sleeve Capeline tee
polyester briefs
socks
heavy-ish nylon pants
Montane Lite-Speed wind shirt
stretch gaiters
hat
trail runners or light boots per conditions expected
gloves

Packed:
Silk weight Capeline long johns
Power Stretch fleece tee
Campmor expedition weight polyester long johns (very close to Power Stretch in design)
Patagonia Micro Puff pullover
spare socks

Sleeping bag:
Moonstone Delta Cirrus 32F mummy bag (28oz).

Strategy:

Wear nylon pants, tee, briefs and windshirt for a starter. Add Powerstretch top and/or silkweight long johns as needed for conditions. Wear heavier long johns and Micro Puff jacket for camp/rest/sleeping as needed (assuming my sleeping bag needs supplementing below freezing).

I am adding some polyester fill bottoms soon and would use those over the Campmor light fleece– if they prove out on weight and compressibility.

Other available strategies: use a polyfill vest vs. the Micro Puff jacket.

I’ve been using my Dawn for a couple of years now, its been great to me, i hiked the long trail with it and was fine with the room (though i had to attatch another pad outside) unfortinitly the silnylon is starting to delaminate around the collar, and the groumet for the drawstring is gone and the fabric is slowly tearing..so im going to make a new pack with the same dimensions as the Dawn (Except a little taller, and less thickness)
mike!

Consider dropping the silk-weight long johns. When your nylon pants prove insufficient, go straight to the expedition-weight long johns. If those plus your pants might be too warm, consider swapping out the pants for zip-off pants.

In place of the two tees, try one midweight or heavier Merino wool tee. You still would have up to three layers on top: tee, wind shirt, pullover.

I like where Karl is going. For fall/winter, something like a midweight wool top could eliminate the need for the fleece? What about a smartwool shadow hoody. Mid weight and hood for that extra bit of warmth.

“unfortinitly the silnylon is starting to delaminate around the collar, and the groumet for the drawstring is gone and the fabric is slowly tearing..”

Send it back to GoLite. Their customer service is amazing. I’ll bet you a granola bar they give you a brand new one.

“What about a smartwool shadow hoody”

I don’t do wool. Feels baaaaad :)

I could do this easy in the summer! Thanks for the tips.

The GoLite Jam arrived today and it solved the space problem. Here’s a lesson in pack size listings: the GoLite web page lists the Dawn as 2500 cubic inches/41 liters and the Jam as 2300 + 450 cubic inches (38L + 7L). I would say the front pockets are close to a draw and the main pack bag on the Dawn, including the top collar, comes to the bottom of the top collar of the Jam. By my estimation the Jam is about 1/3 larger than the Dawn going by height. To add to my confusion the new GoLite catalog that just arrived in the mail lists the Jam as 3200 cubic inches– looks like a transposition in typesetting one way or the other.

At any rate, the Jam has just enough more room than the Dawn to handle my gear through 4 seasons and several days food. That is exactly where I want to be. With water and food I expect the total pack weight should come in around 21 pounds. The base weight with the list below is around 13 pounds.

Winter Kit
45F to 32F and coverage to 20F and some snowfall, rain assumed

Gear:
GoLite Jam pack
Platypus 3L bladder and hose
Black Diamond Approach trekking poles
Princeton Tec Pilot (on pack strap)
Outdoor Research pouch on pack strap

Shelter:
Six Moon Designs Gatewood Cape Shelter
BMW Ti stakes (6)
SpinnSheet ground cloth
Small silnylon stuff sack

Other Misc. Gear:
Golite Landlubber large silnylon stuff sack (food/bear bag)
50′ braided nylon seine twine bear line

Sleeping gear:
Torsolite/ThinLight hybrid pad, 72″ long
Moonstone Delta Cirrus 32F mummy bag
13L Sea to Summit Ultrasil stuff sack
(See additional sleeping clothes below)

Essentials:
Spyderco Delica knife (carried)
Adventure Medical 0.5 kit with added medications and spare micro reading glasses
Maps: Green Trails, laminated if available

---

2L Sea to Summit Ultrasil stuff sack ditty bag:
Platypus 1 liter bladder and sport cap
Space blanket
Black Diamond Ion headlamp
spare battery for Ion
Silva Guide 426 compass (main navigation tool)
REI plastic signal mirror
CR2016 batteries (2) fro Microlight
20 feet small braided nylon seine twine
Foam earplugs
8 hour white chemical light stick
Aqua Mira kit (size appropriate for trip)
45 gallon low density polyethene garbage sack
10 pieces hard candy in ziplock

---

6×9 Aloksak Grooming kit:
Folding hair brush
Toothbrush
Toothpaste gel
Floss
Lip balm
Dr. Bronner’s soap
Bug repellent
Sunscreen
Hotel sewing kit
Small MSR pack towel

---

Key chain with:
Innova Microlight
Waterproof match case with waxed matches and “no blow out” birthday candles
Colibri windproof butane lighter
Bucklite Mini tool with scalpel blade taped to case
ACR whistle
Silva keychain compass

---

Kitchen:
Snowpeak 600 Ti mug
Tin can lid
Esbit folding stove
Esbit tabs
Aluminum wind screen
Spork
Aladdin insulated mug

Toilet kit:
—
6×9 Aloksak with:
Toilet paper
Travel size moist wipes
Purell hand cleaner
—-
MSR Snow Stake digging tool

Basic clothing worn:
REI heavy nlylon pants
briefs
Capeline tee
Capeline socks
Montane Light-Speed wind shirt
Vasque Velocity shoes
MontBell stretch gaiters

Clothing carried:

Rain gear:
SMD Gatewood Cape
Marmot PreCip pants

Accessories:
Mountain Hardwear Tempest gloves
Outdoor Research Stormbucket hat
Outdoor Research Peruvian Windstopper hat
Cotton bandana

Layers:
Spare socks
Capeline silkweight long johns
Capeline long sleeve tee
Mountain Hardwear Power Stretch Zip tee
Campmor expedition weight polyester long johns
Patagonia Micro Puff pullover jacket
8L Sea to Summit Ultrasil stuff sacks (2)

Food:
Dehydrated dinner(s)
Instant oatmeal
Hot cocoa
Dried fruit
Nuts
Granola bars
Chocolate
Foil packed tuna
Bagels
Coffee (Java Juice or bags)
Tea
Sugar packets
etc…

Extras:
PDA
AM/FM/SW radio
GPS
Native American flute

Packing strategy:

Main pack bag:
Sleeping bag in 13L stuff sack horizontal in bottom of pack
Sleeping pad folded against back
Two 8L stuff sacks with clothing side-by-side vertical on top of sleeping bag
Essentials in 2L stuff sack on top of clothing bags
Food sack on top of all

Front pocket:
Cape shelter
Rain pants
First aid kit
Stuff sack with shelter accessories and Bear bag line
Gloves
Rain hat

Side pockets:
Toilet kit
Ti mug
Insulated mug
Snacks
Map

With my sleeping bag across the bottom, it hits my lumbar curve just right. The rest of the gear stiffens up the whole to get a good stable pack and decent weight transfer. The pack is full, but not crammed tight and there is a little slack at top for more food. There is space between the stuff sacks that could hold odds and ends. By using the seperate waterproof stuff sacks I can access items easily and two out of three could fail completely and still leave me with some dry clothing or a sleeping bag. The stuff sacks are all loose enough that packing in the field can be accomplished quickly and easily– there are some margins.

If you want to buy a brand new Dawn pack cheap, I have it listed in the Swap forum. Thanks to all for the tips and advice.

Dale:

The spec table is consistent with your observation that the Jam’s packbag is larger:

Dawn – 2,200 (main) + 000 (ext.) + 300 (front pocket)
Jam — 2,100 (main) + 450 (ext.) + 200 (front pocket)

Table aside, the volume listed next to the Jam in the catalog is wrong. The Jam is not nearly that big in actuality.

45F to 32F and coverage to 20F and some snowfall, rain assumed….is three season in the mountains. True winter conditions would mean temps not reaching 32F as a high during the day. Are you in the south?

Western Washington. I’m not a fan of hiking in the snow, but the freezing level can change quickly in the foothills and I would prefer not to become a negative statistic :) Hiking on the coast in the Winter is rarely below freezing, but wet, windy and 40-ish. The West side of the Olympics can get 150 to 200 inches a year (Hoh Rver area), but the NE corner of the Olympic Peninsula gets 15 inches a year because of the rain shadow effect from the Olympic peaks. The weather generally curls in from the SW, so the 7000+ foot peaks block the rain to the NE>

There are a lot of lower elevation trails that make for good Winter hikes. Below 3000 feet in Western Washington in the Winter is *generally* snow free, wet and cool. The lower Cascade foothills can get upwards of 100 inches of rain per year, so wet is nearly guaranteed. If the temperature in Western Washington falls below freezing, it is generally clear. The incoming clouds off the Pacific bring moist air and it dumps on the foothills as the clouds rise and cool. The clouds keep the heat in as well, so a typical Winter day is 40-ish a light precip. Rainfalls closer to Puget Sound tend to drizzle for days rather than big thunder showers. We usually get some warning on larger Winter storms as they can watch the lows moving in off the North Pacific.

What gets tricky with Pacific Northwest weather is that the jet stream makes a dip to the south and can shift around. If it drops farther to the south, we get cold air from the north and it snows or gets cold and clear.

it seems as though you have solved your pack problem but in any case you should check out the ULA Conduit…i bought it this past season and it has just enough room in the main body (2100ci) for almost everything and the outside mesh pockets can hold quite a bit (3200ci total). it also has add-on options and the pack itself weighs the same as the Jam. just a suggestion for future purchases. good luck otherwise!