Jan 20, 2011 at 11:13 am #1267995
Eric BlumensaadtBPL Member
@danepackerLocale: Mojave Desert
What pack do you use for multi day winter trips?
I use my '90s era Dana Designs Terraplane. 7.5 lbs and 5.000 cu. in.
But, hey, I need the size and toughness for the heavier, bulkier gear I have to carry for winter camping,
So do you try to force all your winter gear into your UL summer pack or do you have a special "winter pack"?
P.S. I also have a "winter stove", my MSR Dragonfly. Utterly reliable and can simmer to save fuel… or bake. I don't trust canister stoves of any style for winter. YMMVJan 20, 2011 at 11:18 am #1686278
Evan McCarthyBPL Member
I try to force things into my summer UL pack (MLD Burn). It's working so far, even with my zero degree quilt, Exped Downmat 9, down parka, down pants, OR Alti mittens, and lots of extra socks.Jan 20, 2011 at 8:43 pm #1686494
Nick TruaxBPL Member
@nicktruaxLocale: SW Montana
My dedicated winter multiday pack is an older Golite Pinnacle. Truly great for weight vs volume vs carrying capacity. Not to mention durability.
Really though, 7.5lbs for just your pack!!?? I've met Dana and must say that his packs (old and new) are impeccable, but optimal for their intended usage…military, hunting, SAR, traditional BP'ing, etc.
My winter base-weight is about 10-13 lbs depending on the conditions. Just my thoughts, but I think that you may need to re-evaluate your winter packing solution.
Now, if I'm ice climbing or mountaineering I carry an Arcteryx Needle 45 or a BD Quantum 55 depending on the situation. Heavy compared to my Pinnacle (~twice the weight) but durable as hell and carry great.
And one more additional comment – my lady uses her LW Osprey Exos 34 for BOTH summer and winter. She's a svelte 105 lbs and has no complaints regarding this pack for all seasons. She loves it – "the only pack I ever need"!
Looks like its time to change your packing system :)Jan 20, 2011 at 9:06 pm #1686504
Honestly, there needs to be some definition around what one would consider winter conditions. A 13lb baseweight would not be sufficient in -35C weather, not including windchill. Add in copious amounts of falling snow (i.e. 30-40cm over a 24 hour period) and the requirements for a robust shelter increase. What about a stove? At those temps, you are not going to be using alcohol. Except maybe to drink before bed. My insulative layers alone would be close to 8 pounds.
For winter? A Granite Gear Nimbus Meridian.Jan 20, 2011 at 9:33 pm #1686516
David I doubt the majority of people here would think of heading out with a -35C forecast (that's ~-30F). There are just very few places that see those kind of conditions with any consistency, although I agree a 13# baseweight wouldn't cut it for those conditions.Jan 21, 2011 at 8:47 am #1686628
Nick TruaxBPL Member
@nicktruaxLocale: SW Montana
My 13 lb baseweight takes me to 0ºF and a bit below. Copious snow as well – BA String Ridge 2 handles it all.
Augmented for colder temps, I'm still under 20 lbs – but don't really seek going out in -30ºF weather. And I imagine for the majority, -30ºF with over a foot of snow in 24 hrs is not the **norm** I've seen them both happen, but not simultaneously.Jan 21, 2011 at 8:59 am #1686634
Sorry Scott. That is the weather we face consistently in the mountains in Jasper and Banff Alberta in peak of winter. We are a hearty bunch and still get out. Or maybe we are just a little crazy.
Nicholas, can you post your gear list? The tent you are using is almost 60% of your base weight – what insulative layers, what pad, sleeping bag, pack, etc. It would be helpful for me to understand a bit more. Thanks,Jan 21, 2011 at 9:16 am #1686639
"David I doubt the majority of people here would think of heading out with a -35C forecast (that's ~-30F). There are just very few places that see those kind of conditions with any consistency, although I agree a 13# baseweight wouldn't cut it for those conditions."
Sorry bud. Up here on the North Shore of MN those conditions are common. I've been out backing willingly conditions down to -29 F. I'm heading out this weekend and it's going to be -10 F for the lows with 5 F for the highs.
Two words: Pulk Sled. :PJan 21, 2011 at 9:39 am #1686649
my winter base weight is around 18ish lbs. and i live in edmonton(farthest north major city in N.A.) and I use an 2008 pinnacle. bushwhacking, and trudging through snow,and it's plenty durable. last time I was out it was about -30C in the wind. Pyramid shelters in winter at the way to go to cut weight.Jan 21, 2011 at 9:57 am #1686663
Yes, of course you guys are right. The vast majority of the members here are from places like Minn. or the Canadian Rockies. I'm sure MOST of the readers here regularly are out in winter in conditions similar to the upper midwest or canadian rockies.
Sorry Bud, most of the members and readers here are from locales much warmer than what the three of you described.Jan 21, 2011 at 10:02 am #1686665
Anyone want to buy a membership?
Sadly, Chad and I are not worthy. (kidding)Jan 21, 2011 at 10:18 am #1686669
Yes, of course you're right Scott. The vast majority of the member here are from places like NY. I'm sure MOST of the readers here are out in winter conditions similar to upstate NY and only upstate NY.
Sorry But, the members a readers here are from a varied locales much different than where one single New Yorker hikes.
This why went discussing winter gear lists it's a good idea to describe the conditions that you hike in.Jan 21, 2011 at 10:31 am #1686674
Sorry you guys about my tone earlier, one word: FLU! :(Jan 21, 2011 at 10:40 am #1686680
It's ok.Jan 21, 2011 at 3:48 pm #1686801
I suppose no snowshoes in that 13lb baseweight? No ski poles or ice axe? No shelter that can actually take 60mph winds either. Is there a shovel in that list? Bet not, so you can't even create a snowcave in case the weather decides to crap out on you. No ice axe either is there?
A winter shelter if its not a Bivy bag by itself is going to take 3-4lbs simply to sustain the winds in the mountains. Of course a bivy bag that can withstand contact with ice is going to weigh in around 1.5-2lbs by itself. Yea, you can get throw away bivy bags that are lighter, but you better like throwing them away. Add in trecking poles/ice axe.
SO far this takes me to a baseweight of 3-4lb + 3lb + 1lb or 8 of your 13lbs and haven't even addressed backpack day clothes verses night clothes/sleeping system as you are going to sweat. If you claim tiny 2lb total 25inch long snowshoes I will laugh myself silly as you must like post holing instead actually floating on top of the snow. 25inch snowshoes don't even work except on the thickest of cascades concrete snow after it has rained for a day.
0F and sleep system of about 3lbs if you use your day clothes and proper VB(vapor barrier) clothing so clothes stay dry at best that would mean no padding between you and the sub 0F snow. Add in a pad that you can actually suffer the night through for more than a single night IE going out for a week and we are talking another 1.5lbs.
Stove and fuel as there won't be running water… Another pound or 2 right there… If out more than 2 days far more than that.
To claim 13lbs for 0 degree F winter weather is an absurd claim. I note you never posted your gear list either… 13lbs into the Rocky mountains, the Sierra mountains, the Cascade Mountains, or NY, in winter time unless its at most for 1 night emergency survival "training" is laughably absurd. Those people are called "rescue Missions" for the local SAR.
I mean I like a tall wives tale as good as the next sucker, but common. Try a modicum of reality. IF you claimed Near 20lbs. Ok, gotcha. Climbing a peak from basecamp and expecting it to take more than a full day and looking at overnighting, sure 13lbs.
I get tired of BS posts. 13lbs for summer hiking, sure no problem, but winter in a non emergency situation? HAHAHA.
Sorry you hit my pet peeve.Jan 21, 2011 at 3:55 pm #1686805
For winter, basically just a big bag with tie ons for the bulky sleeping bag and tie ons for the shovel, hardier tent, bigger closed cell foam sleeping mats as you don't trust airmattresses 100% except for say an added chest mat layer.
Depends on total weight. I can get "by" with my BD Shadow 55L pack if its only for a week and NO climbing gear. This has quite a bit on the outside as well. Crampons, Snowshoes, Sleeping Pad, Tent, tarp,shovel. Note, in a snowstorm said sleeping pad will get snow on it. Plan accordingly.
Otherwise if climbing gear, I have to go with my McHale Alpiner, or Gregory Denali Pro etc type of pack. Simply to keep more stuff protected from the elements and my back will thank me as well as they actually have a frame for carrying the weight even if they are heavier packs.
You can get several big "bag" light weight packs. McHale makes several. Kelty used to make several, their white cloud spectra packs, also off the top of my head the Andanista pack would do the trick. All of these packs tend to be more expensive but are far lighter. Around 4lbs or less.Jan 21, 2011 at 4:00 pm #1686809
Skurka's winter baseweight was 18.1. his icebox trip was 13ish lbs.Jan 21, 2011 at 6:48 pm #1686843
Mike MBPL Member
I figure my 0 kit base weight to be in the 16-18# range (we get plenty of minus whatever weather here, but I usually pass for camping in those conditions- I get plenty of opportunity to work in it though! :))
I'm in between "summer" packs right now, but will be getting something in the 45 liter range (had a Exos 46 which volume wise was just about right for up to a week) so for anything be a night (maybe two) I'll need another pack
the volume (and weight!) of the Pinnacle is very appealing, but w/ food/fuel/water could end up in the low 30 # range, does anyone know how the frameless Pinnacle would handle those ballpark weights?
MikeJan 21, 2011 at 7:09 pm #1686853
NO, his Skin baseweight is over 24lbs… Mine is over 30lbs. =( Things to strive to get better for. … Wonders what he was using as his VB pants… Hmmm. Went up as it got colder. Though he did have a few things I wouldn't count and a bunch of stuff that he made that is far lighter than what I have. This is the number I would expect for someone truly cutting every corner. That is not me, but hey he must have a VERY high metabolism to stay warm at night with next to nothing under him. Add food/Fuel and whatever water you carry and you are looking at 45lbs unless you like to starve on a week trip.
Not counting boots verses tennis shoes as your baseweight is plane stupid and misleading. Ok, he went with tennis shoes and overboots… Gutsy, very gutsy. Just like not counting snowshoes or skies as part of your baseweight. Not counting said equipment is dumb.
Don't know about you but carrying an extra +3lbs on each foot compared to tennis shoes in summer time is a HUGE deal. Only number that counts is skin out weight in winter. Summer you ain't wearing anything to speak of, shorts and maybe a shirt, so its all in your pack. In this sense baseweight does make sense. Not winter.
Not counting your boots or in your example overboots verses tennis shoes as part of ones baseweight is bull as an example or the fact that instead of wearing a T and a shorts one is wearing long johns, tights, a balaclava, VB WIND SHIRT, VB gloves, VB socks with more socks, VB shirt, VB pants… etc…
Skin out weight is the only number that counts not what is in your pack unless we are talking summer. Saying that your baseweight winter is your shelter, and sleep system and maybe a down coat for wearing at camp doesn't come anywhere close to what most folks think of as their baseweight because in winter you are wearing Nearly everything, IE FARRRR more weight.
Thus why I wrote about vb… as Skurka uses VB as any rational person would in winter…
Sorry, took his 13lbs to be skin out weight, which I interpretted as Baseweight for winter use.Jan 22, 2011 at 7:31 pm #1687214
this is a discussion on what is in the pack because its a discussion on what types/brand/model of pack people use or recommend. yes your WEARING more clothing but your boots, and snowshoes aren't in your pack. this would indicate a much lower total weight. its about what is INSIDE your pack. that is why the frameless packs are being said. Skin out weight isn't included in a BASEWEIGHT because it isn't in the pack. most people recognize that snowshoes, boots, skis, heavy clothing take a toll on the body as you move, but that still doesn't dictate the pack as much as whats actually going in it. sorry its your pet peeve but this is backpackinglight if you look at most peoples gear lists, their skin weight will still be on the list. i personally dont agree with everyones list like for example including your camera as worn because its in your pocket. but i'm not going to stress about it because its usually on the list.Jan 22, 2011 at 9:56 pm #1687249
Yes, but said pack has to be able to stuff the clothes you are wearing as temperatures change as well. Thus its far closer to Skin out weight than some nebulous "baseweight". This would only be true if the temperature never changes… Anyone can claim a low "baseweight" if they decide they are wearing everything… Of course their pack still has to be able to fit nearly all those layers.
Low numbers sound cool, they aren't reality.
Pack: Winter for me BD Shadow 55L. Yea, its heavy at 3.5lbs, but you can attach the snowshoes to it for when the snow is hard enough to support your weight as you have to carry said snowshoes with you in case the weather moves in and dumps on you. Same with skis, if you are a ski guy and the terrain gets rough and you have to carry said skis.
Why I never would consider those ultra light packs.
Now maybe you are in a region of the country that gets no snow, in that case its not called winter backpacking. That is just backpacking.Jan 23, 2011 at 8:05 am #1687325
Mike MBPL Member
@mtwardenLocale: MontanaJan 25, 2011 at 5:40 pm #1688401
@davecLocale: The West Slope
I made my own really big frameless pack for (among other things) winter travel.
Brian, you may have constructive things to say, but your sanctimonious attitude hides them. I'd encourage you to stop.
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