Mid Layer Question

How short are the hikes you're doing? I'm from San Diego, but even I think 30-60°F is t-shirt weather.

Let's drop the temperature to where I'd wear insulation: 15°F. I'd like a thin long sleeve wool shirt and momentum 90 windshirt. For breaks I'd continue using my New Balance Fugu down jacket.

If temperatures were in your range, but it was a slow hike over easy terrain, I might wear a Patagonia R1.

Well I went out hiking a month ago and it was around 30 F and windy.

I was doing around 6 hours or so hikes. However, once I got higher in the terrain, it just felt cooler.

The paclite cut a lot of the wind out however I still got pretty chilly with just a t shirt and a sweater under it.

I was thinking that maybe a light fleece in that weather would have helped. Or would a windshirt under the paclite be enough? or a therma wrap vest?

And maybe a thermal pro high loft would be good for when it was even cooler? Or a down vest?

This one is going to be subjective… The times I wear a mid or insulation layer:

1. At the beginning of my hike on a cold day — and taking it off after maybe 15 – 20 minutes, as I heat up. Depending on temps, I'll then hike with a shell layer over a tee shirt — or wear just the tee shirt.

2. At camp when at rest — when needed.

Methinks the key is "prevention". When hiking with extra layer(s), pay attention to shed them once you start to warm up — meaning well before you feel hot. Sometimes, people don't bother and just continue hiking on… and by the time they actually feel hot, they're already sweated into their insulation layer.

Conversely, take care to put on a layer (shell or insulation as appropriate) — before you truly feel cold. That's prolly the best way to avoid the potential of hypothermia.

Hi Jonathan, a lot of it will come down to personal preference/body. For me personally, I can hike with a 140 weight merino T as my baselayer, and a patagonia R1 over it as my midlayer, in temps around freezing (30-35). If I start to overheat, I just unzip the neck and roll up the sleeves. A heavyweight powerstretch midlayer is similar, but I prefer the powerdry material used in the R1. High loft like Thermalpro for the most part, causes me to overheat when I'm moving.

If you are looking for a midlayer that you can use while on the move, than I would look at fleece, such as the mentioned R1. I would stay away from anything down or primaloft…you're going to overheat very quickly.

I only bring out my Down and synthetic insulation when I'm at a standstill…like when I finally hit the summit and just want to chill out or when im in camp doing camp choirs.

You may find that your gtx paclite shell, over an R1 or similar, over your merino baselayer will be enough for those temps both on the move and at a standstill. Not sure how hot your engine runs…if it's insufficient, than consider buying a lightweight down sweater or synthetic jacket. Chances are, you're going to end up buying both fleece and down/synthetic insulation at some point as they serve different functions.

So my understanding is that a light fleece like a 100wt would be sufficient under my paclite while I am on move.

If I plan to set up camp and just chill, I should add a down jacket?

Also, what type of fleece? 100wt, polartec?

Thanks!

My short answer is that for most people a long sleeve light to mid-weight base, and adding a highly wind resistant shell when needed should be enough while hiking to 30F. Some people run colder so they want a heavier base or a 100wt fleece mid layer around 30F. I would bring the down/synthetic vest for when you stop. My longer answer would be my recommended clothing page

The single best page on this site which tried to answer this questions is Richard’s best clothing combination for hiking and backpacking

–Mark

i think Niesly has a great post about ideal layers for backpacking which he talks about the R1 or a light merino hoody as the ideal baselayer.
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=9378

I tend to agree, although its different for everyone. Unless you're hiking in extreme cold you probably won't need a midlayer while hikig. A light weight merino LS or cap 1 would work well as a base in summer. For 3 season, I'd check out the i/o bio contact glory hoody. Mine weighs about 7-8 oz in L and its a great piece for a lot of different temps.

I like the R1 because it works as a cold weather baselayer when hiking or a midlayer if you want to use if for that.

I would replace the 100 wt fleece midlayer with a windshirt. All I wear starting out on cold mornings is an Exofficio shirt and a windshirt. There is nothing wrong with taking a 100 wt fleece pullover though. You could use it for a pillow at night.

Thanks for everyone's advice and tips.

re: Mark – I found your website a few months ago – I am a huge fan of your website!

The gear isn't as important as the technique to use it. Read this: http://www.psychovertical.com/theartofnotsuffering

I personally only bring one insulating layer when 3-season hiking. This is a big part of keeping the overall weight down and it leads to simplicity and less volume consumed in your pack.

I choose a layer that I think will keep me adequately warm in camp and at my lunch stop. During warmer times (ie. when hiking) I never find it difficult to find a combo that works. If it's warm, I just hike in my baselayer. If it's cool, I hike in my baselayer + windshirt and if it's really getting cold you could possibly ditch the windshirt and use the baselayer + insulating layer, or use all three. With all of these combo you can play with unzipping them and you can change other layers like your hat to regulate your overall temperature as well.

In the summer, my insulating layer is a light down vest (ie. Montbell Ex-Light Vest). In the colder shoulder seasons I use a warmer down jacket (ie. Montbell Alpine Light) but a synthetic one or a fleece could be a good choice if you aren't confident that you can keep it dry. I don't like hoods on any of my insulating layers as they are prone to getting wet. I prefer no hood, and then I use a fleece cap.

Thanks for the link – it felt like I was back in college…

but very, very informative – thanks!

I would agree with most of the suggestions on here. For me, a short sleeve merino shirt and a breathable windshirt is usually all I need from about 35*F to 50*F while hiking uphill. Any colder than that and I use the R1 as a midlayer since it is pretty breathable and layers well under the windshirt. Being somewhat cold blooded, I tend to freeze if I stand around too long and have either a down poofy (Alpine Light Parka or vest) or synthetic (Thermawrap) to put on depending on the temperature. Fleece midlayers are very versatile, breath well, and don't weigh to terribly bad. They are cozy for sleeping and dry rather quick too.

A 100W fleece pull-over would be cheap and easy to try. Eddie Bauer has the First Ascent fleece tops on sale now and then. Lands End has theirs on sale for $15 occasionally and they are really fluffy. There are 20 zillion brands out there that would suffice. You could always get use out of it.

Patagonia R1 is nice, but $$$$. Likewise with Power Stretch. EMS had their Power Stretch hoodie on sale a few days ago– about $70. I have a Power Stretch vest that is nice under a rain shell or windshirt (about 8oz). For insulated vests, the Patagonia Micro Puff is good (around 12oz) and there is the thinner Nano Puff in pullover and jacket versions. MontBell has the Thermawrap jacket. Those thinner ones are about like a 200w fleece for R value, but they do cut the wind too. The Micro Puff jacket or pullover are good for heavier insulation— 16oz or so; likewise the Mountain Hardwear Compressor jacket.

Of late, I'm liking the Power Stretch hoodie and a Micro Puff vest with windshirt and rain shell. You can wear them in any combo with a base layer tee. Not the uber-lightest, but super-uber-versatile, water-phobic and very comfortable.