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Kooka Bay/Downmat questions

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PostedJan 7, 2011 at 3:17 pm

I generally stick to three-season camping, but I have a few nights a year that dip under 15 degrees. I'm looking for a "do it all" combination of sleeping pads that will take me into light winter camping, but not make me too hot on humid summer nights (70 degree lows).

I'm a side-sleeper with broad shoulders and hips, two back surgeries and one shoulder surgery so far (I do a lot of stupid stuff), and one shoulder that's due to be rebuilt this year. I toss, turn, roll and flail, even when "comfortable". This may be blaspheme here, but for me, sleeping pad comfort is much more important than weight. I like the comfort of a semi-firm 2.5" air mattress. I think I'd love a 3.5" well-insulated mattress. I've toyed with the idea of (read: dreamed about) going to an Exped Downmat 9 Deluxe or a Kooka Bay custom down-filled mat (3.5"x 25"x 72").

Are these pads too warm for mid-summer camping when used with just a sheet or light bag liner? How do they do for puncture resistance? Best to combine with a CCF pad? If so, which one? If I get a pack which requires a pad like a Z-lite (I really like the SMD Traveler on paper), is the 3.5" down mattress overkill? Does a Z-Lite provide much in the way of puncture resistance given it's narrower width? Would a 1/8" CCF pad do the trick?

By the way… my current sleep/shelter system:
Double-wall 2-man tent
Pacific Outdoors "insulated" air mattress (2.5"x72"x20", 26 oz.)
20 degree Alps Mountaineering Clearwater Wide synthetic bag
Poly boxers & wool socks. Beanie when absolutely necessary.

This combination usually keeps me comfortably warm to 35 degrees, cool but manageable between 25 and 35 (when coupled with a 3/8" CCF pad), and downright cold below 25 degrees (usually on the bottom side). The "insulation" in the air mattress consists of an 1/8" open cell foam sheet that settles to the bottom of each chamber – probably close to useless. Otherwise, the pad is as comfy as any other 2.5" air mattress. I'm generally good about clearing the site of rocks, twigs, and pointy things, but I've occasionally relied on the "fingers crossed" method of puncture resistance. No holes so far.

Thanks,
FB

Randy Nelson BPL Member
PostedJan 7, 2011 at 7:11 pm

I can't speak to warm temperatures as I was out of action for the summer and have only used it for spring and fall but the Kooka Bay DAM seems to be tough enough. I also pick up before I put up my tent and I don't use a ground cloth. The KB DAM has been fine. I do use a GG Thinlite 1/8" for insulation but I put it on top of the DAM. And my dog's walked (and slept) on top of that combo a lot. No problems. I'm also a restless, side sleeper so I went with the 25" so I can stay on top of it. Bender didn't seem to think there was a huge difference between the 2.5" and the 3.5" so I went with the 2.5". But there's very little weight penalty going to the 3.5". I'm very happy with it. For winter I plan on adding a cheap blue pad underneath. I hope to try it out next weekend.

PostedJan 9, 2011 at 3:12 pm

Thanks, Randy.

Is yours made of 30D or 70D nylon? I'm wondering what the weight penalty is for the heavier fabric.

Thanks again,
Ken

Heath Pitts BPL Member
PostedJan 9, 2011 at 3:28 pm

Ken,

I have the SMD Traveler myself. I still bring a small z-lite for a thermarest compack chair. This is used as my pack frame, camp seat, and extra insulation when needed under my big Agnes IAC. I do plan on upgrading to a kookabay mattress this year but I plan on staying with the 2.5. I have some additional z-lite sections that I can bring if I need for extra insulation the length of the pad. Not the lightest solution by any means but it does keep me comfortable

PostedJan 9, 2011 at 7:04 pm

I don't plan to be out in as cold weather as you. I have two KB pads, one short NeoAir and three CCF pads. My Kooka Bay pads are syn filled R4 the short one is 12.8oz 70D the 72" is 13oz and I guess 30D with the outside tubes no syn fill. The CCF are 1/8, 1/4 and a blue 3/8. My only concern is not enough R value to keep me warm. If you adjust your top layers I am not sure any of these pads will be hot, just insulated. It has been a couple of years since I have slept outside in the summer but as I recall I just slept on top of everything and was fine.

PostedJan 9, 2011 at 7:10 pm

I've heard the KB down pad is good on it's own well into the teens, so I'm not worried about needing to stack mats for extra insulation. If I carry a CCF pad, it'll be primarily for puncture protection. I'm just not sure it's needed, or if a 20" CCF under a 25" KB mat is worth the extra weight.

Carl, That's good news on the summer sleeping… I don't mind sleeping uncovered. I just don't want to be roasting because I'm laying on 12 ounces of down.

Thanks again to all.

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