Most significant advances in 2010

My love life!

Congratulations Mark! I suppose this would be an inappropriate place for you to discuss new 'techniques'

I think you'll get customers of Zpacks to disagree with you about your assertion of cuben fiber.

There's a thread here about how 900 down has to do with how it's measured in U.S. vs Europe, it's not really a new better product.

Lots of threads about other Cuben products – pants, packs, gloves, bivy,… Since they require relatively little fabric you don't save that much weight, but then it doesn't cost that much either.

Forgot about those packs. Fine looking packs for sure and appropriate in some circumstances. If i was in toothbrush drilling mode, it would be at the top of my wish list.
I was specifically referring to the cuben VB and rain stuff which seems to be a reincarnation of the silnylon vb and rain stuff attempted many moons ago. It seems to me the excitement of a fine new material may have blurred the past lessons of the impracticality or limitations of VB active wear. Its easy to get excited about that stuff though. The weight savings of cuben VB stuff from a spreadsheet is nearly irresistible, as is the concept of VB (add 10* to whatever your doing). Applying the concept in real hiking is a different story. I will say its probably as effective at keeping someone dry as my Marmot Mica jacket was to me. Stupid Mica *$@%…

Dave, yes it would be, but not "gear"!!

Here are the big ones in my opinion:

1) 10D Nylon Fabrics (ie. Momentum 50, Pertex 10D) – Perfect for shaving ounces off sleeping bags/quilts. Now we just need to get some more products on the market.

2) WP/B Cuben – This one is just getting started too, but WP/B Cuben holds so much promise for rain gear, single wall tents, bivy's etc.

3) 1.5oz Cuben Packs – These are amazing. So light and durable. Perfect for many UL applications.

"Cuben being tried in everything imaginable with little practical success outside shelters [no flame wars intended ;)"

I'm not going to flame you, but I will respectfully disagree. Cuben has been very successful, to my knowledge. I can't think of any failed product involving Cuben. If anything, people have been reluctant to make things out of it. The obvious reason being that it is expensive. If it was a cheap as silnylon, then you would see it a lot more products. Simply put, it is very strong for its weight, easier to work with than silnylon, and comes in various weights, so you can make it as strong or as light as you choose. The problem is that people aren't always willing to pay extra for a product that is better.

As far as your original question goes, I have trouble remembering when things get invented. I can't remember when the NeoAir made its official debut. If it was 2010, then I would put it at the top of the list. It isn't the lightest, or most comfortable or warmest sleeping pad out there, but it fits a really nice sweet spot for a lot of people (myself included).

I think a lot of new Cuben tents debuted in 2010, some from people I never heard of before (and others from people not known for tent making). I think Klymit introduced their first product (an Argon gas filled vest) in 2010. Who knows if that will pan out? If it does, it could be a huge advancement.

It's easy to think that technology plateaus, when you look at it in very short increments. However, when looked at in a longer time frame, things are still advancing quite rapidly. That doesn't mean that things don't plateau, it just means that making an overall assessment while things are happening is very difficult.

I'm a long time backpacker. I got a bug up my rear and updated most of my gear this year. I have no idea what was brought to market when so I couldn't tell you what happened in 2010 or earlier.

Observations on my gear exchange. I've trimmed some weight. I don't have any significant trail experience with the new gear yet but I'm probably 5lbs lighter than my old base weight. Materials are lighter weight… but I expect a sacrifice in durability on some of these items so it is a trade-off. There was no such thing as "ultralight" or "Ray's Way" when I started backpacking so the Ultralight movement is probably the biggest industry change I've seen. My old gear was light too and most people who hiked significant miles figured that out even in the "old days". It is more extreme now though. There is a social element to it and like any movement you get extremist.

But…. old vs. new (goes beyond 2010):

Alcohol Stoves: Not really new since they have been around forever but the ultralight movement has done a great job at making them more attractive as a primary stove.

Tents/Tarps: Tents have undergone a serious weight loss along with some loss of stability/durability. The weight loss was extreme…. my old 3lb hoop tent was ultralight in it's day.

Clothing: Better down products….lighter materials, better construction.

Packs: Lighter…. huge weight loss. In the old days we judged a pack by how much it could carry. Now… <2lb packs are very usable.

Sleeping Systems: Quilts are new, better materials, better down. Sleeping pads…. NeoAir, and all the additional players. Our choice used to be foam or ThermaRest.

Cooking (besides stove) Titanium….. we didn't have titanium cooking gear in the old days. I still don't…… but I see the weight savings in traditional gear.

" I will say its probably as effective at keeping someone dry as my Marmot Mica jacket was to me. Stupid Mica *$@%…"

Whats wrong with the Mica? I have one and its fine..

Jason wrote, "Whats wrong with the Mica? I have one and its fine..".

Indeed it is. Except there are other rainproof options that are way more breathable. Have you tried an eVENT jacket to compare?

But back to topic…

I too am pretty enthusiastic about cuben. My wish for 2011: that the price of cuben will come down a few notches…

Ben wrote: "Indeed it is. Except there are other rainproof options that are way more breathable. Have you tried an eVENT jacket to compare?"

I have, and although it did breathe a bit better than my Marmot Essence, and had a much better DWR, end the end they both sucked. Rain gear does not work in the environment in which I hike.

Agree, Brad. All rain gear suck when it's warm/humid enough or when we're moving fast enough. No miracle fabrics yet — which is probably not surprising given how we can sweat even when hiking with just a tee — or nekkid…. But given what we have currently, methinks eVent is best — followed by Montbell's similar technology Breeze Dry Tec — and the fashion and toughness challenged Driducks.

Agree with you there Brad. No such thing as waterproof + breathable for anyone with a pulse rate above 70 standing still in a dry environment. I guess the humidity loads arelargely different in most of the west (OK Olympic, the Gorge and the North Cascades get REALLY wet!) I've had some success with capes and kilts since they vent pretty well by default. Cuben ought to work well for uses like these since there's no stress involved.

The Achilles heel of cuben seems to be the fabric isn't woven so a hole (stitching)can lead to a tear which under stress becomes a rip. Note the careful attention to stress points in cuben packs and the tendency to make pyramid style shelters with the stress distributed down the length of the seam.

I expect to see continued success with adapting cuben to various applications.

The Achilles heel of cuben seems to be the fabric isn't woven so a hole (stitching)can lead to a tear which under stress becomes a rip.

For the weight, cuben is a lot more tear/rip resistant than a woven fabric. Compare 1.5oz Cuben to regular Silnylon (1.3 or 1.7oz with coating) and you'll find the silnylon is FAR easier to tear and rip, while it's pretty much impossible to enlarge a hole in 1.5oz cuben. Here's a great video from Joe @ ZPacks showing this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gfcuCh7h04

I would say 0.51oz cuben fiber is similar or stronger to silnylon in terms of tear/rip resistance, so cuben is a huge advance in this area for the weight. The key thing is choosing the suitable weight of cuben for your application.

6" wide sections of silnylon sewn with 1 row of stitching to CN1K.08 cuben fiber.

That is 1.35 oz sil vs .52 oz cuben.

Results, at 42 lbs of pull, the silnylon and the nylon thread (7 pound breaking
strength) both failed. The cuben fabric has enlarged needle holes, but survived.

Fabric as tough (sil) or tougher (lightweight cuben) than the thread it is sewn with should be good to go.

I have seen several mentions of wp/b cuben in the last few weeks. Can anyone point us to more detailed information… fabric weight, various breathability / air permeability metrics, if it direct vents of if the water vapor has to condense to be transmitted?

Thanks,
Mark

Regarding 900 vs 800 fp down. Yes, there is some inconsistency in the information available. Yes there are different testing standards between the US and Europe. However, that issue is mostly irrelevant unless you're comparing Euro brands and US brands.

Plain and simple, I've worked with many many lbs of 800 and 900fp, I have both on hand. There is a tangible difference between them, and I wont get into details, but in some ways, it's contrary to the accepted wisdom.

I've switched to using 900fp exclusively in my quilts. I calculate on a baffle by baffle basis, LxWxTarget Loft H/900×28, and measure on two scales each time, which are accurate to 1/10th gram.

All of my quilts meet or exceed expected loft. I don't hedge heavily. I don't add 20% extra(or even %5), etc. I do err on the side of a little extra, but it's always less than half a gram per baffle. Most if not all of my customers feel my quilts meet or beat the target temp rating.

All down is not created equal, there are so many variables, and so many vendors, but the 900 I use, definitely beats any of the 800 I've seen(all US testing standards). The proof is in the loft, and the final weight.

I can't comment on the 950fp.

As to the issue of Blast Packs, the OP seems to have a misconception that they're not durable? Any blast pack would likely last the career of an average hiker. Many nylon packs look like total trash after a thru, and the Blast packs seem to be consistently making that mark.

Cuben has it's quirks like every fabric, but it's here to stay, and it's made a significant and positive impact on the sport.

Just my 2c.

Glad to see I am wrong about some things. As I said, I've been out of the loop a while. However, the pack manufacturer listed expected life of 1 thru hike lends me to believe durability could be more of an issue than more robust packs made of dyneema gridstop. I would completely expect them to be better off than the old spinnaker packs, but thats not saying much. I will hold steady that the Mica sucks. I spent more hours inside that soggy torso coffin that would like to remember. Going with pastel colored dri ducks until someone figures out how to make the other stuff work on the east coast.

So it seems a bit conflicting with the 900 vs 800 fill debate. Did they start processing the down to be better than 800 fill down from a while back (like from Thru-Hiker), or did they just change the numbers from 725 and 800 to 800 and 900? I would prefer they made a new process, because it would be so easy to justify jumping on 800 fill for $6.50 an ounce.

"However, the pack manufacturer listed expected life of 1 thru hike lends me to believe durability could be more of an issue than more robust packs made of dyneema gridstop."

That would be about 6 year lifetime for me based on 500 miles per year.

Plenty durable, especially if you're trading off a little durability for light weight.