New PCT 2011 gear list

I never used to treat water at all and went almost 7 years with no problem. Then after a trip out of Sonora Pass my luck gave out. I went to the doctor and yes they ran a test and a week after the symptons showed up they gave me metronidazole and the giardia went away. My beef was that it took several days to get on the medicine when I walked in and told them what I had. Now, I have a coarse of the medicine on hand because I know there is a good chance I will get it on the PCT. (A pretty high percentage of folks get it.) Anyone can get the exact medicine on the internet for about $5 per coarse, search for a product call Fish Zole. It is generic metronidazole – 250mg. This is the generic form of what I was given.

Now, I treat my water with two drops of standard bleach per liter if I'm hiking anywhere but the Sierras. It works as well as any other drops and cost almost nothing. And it can be found widely on the trail. You can do a search for a post I made last year on some data on bleach usage from the CDC and other experts.

"metronidazole"

I think that is the standard drug of choice here in the USA. There seems to be some flexibility in the dosage, and that depends on exactly how severe the symptoms are. Some victims show most of the obvious symptoms, but others show only subtle symptoms. Some people are asymptomatic, but that can mean they are a silent carrier.

I think that lots of PCT hikers do _something_ for water treatment, and that may be easier insurance than contracting the parasite and having to go through treatment.

–B.G.–

I have heard that metronidazole treatment is very bad. How was it for you?

So you don't treat Sierra water now?

If you think metronidazole is bad, try Flagyl.

Years ago, Flagyl was more available in some other countries, but it was a known carcinogen in major dosage.

Crude, but effective.

I watched as a woman underwent emergency treatment for giardia in the field, with Flagyl from a physician. She said that she didn't know which was worse, the illness or the treatment. It was painful even for the witnesses to be around.

–B.G.–

Flagyl is metronidozole, it is the branded version.

I will treat water and am not letting myself get sick and treating it. I am not willing to go through several days of misery in the event I do have it. And the weight of 15 pills is worth the piece of mind.

I didn't have any major issues with metronidozole. You can't drink alcohol but other than that no issue.

No, I don't treat water in the area between Yosemite and Kings/Sequoia. In National Forest areas where they allow grazing (like below sonora pass) I won't go untreated. Also, the time year was a factor, it was fall. There was limited water was would concentrate the animals drinking and the concentration of the parasite.

Here is a great article on the subject.

http://tinyurl.com/5v3eem7

Haha, this turned from gear help to a fight to the death over water treatment. What a strong showing of weaponry we have- colonic inducing biological weapons, Ultraviolet light that scrambles DNA, and chemicals powerful enough to clean a locker room shower.

All kidding aside, I used to try and chose water sources wisely to avoid chemicals and filtering. It was great to have yummy water fast. Getting sick for 2 weeks from it convinced me that reducing the risk was worth a few ounces or a few minutes a day. Others may not see that until they are on a liquid diet or have a reverse liquid diet depending on the ailment.

Overall effectiveness seems to favor UV treatment, so does speed, and taste. Downside is reliability, but seems to be less an issue than before. Weight favors chemicals, while pills are also incredibly easy. Filters are great for taste and generally better than chemicals for effectiveness, but heavy and high maintenance. Bleach is cheap and light. I suppose in the end, there is no perfect solution for everyone. I would highly recommend having a solution though

Saw a lot of these used and they did seem to have reliability issues. A couple I knew fixed this by scrubbing the water sensor probes that allow the light to be turned on whenever their pen stopped working. It seemed to me that these sensors were simply oxidizing. Just a tidbit that might help extend the life of the pen. Drying the light/sensors after use would probably be the best approach and scrubbing away the corrosion when the light does fail to turn on.

well not to get into the treatment debate (Aquamira when nessasary was my plan).
Here is what we did see in 2010 on the PCT

Giardia- 3 prior to Kennedy Meadows that I remember, 4 in OR.
E. Coli- Big Lake Youth Camp, OR
Small Pox-Sierras
all of these were my friends so I am not making this up!
Yeah small pox.
Life on the trail is a crap shoot, i met a guy that wouldn't shake hands and gave elbow bumps to not pass germs, he got sick like 3 times.

as far as treatments, if you chose that option, for most of the trail most people used aqua mira, and those that didnt, end up using aquamira or bleach by the end of cali.

giardia, ecoli: sounds about right.
small pox. thats crazy.

there's a good chance of me switching to AM or bleach at some point. I would be much happier if the need never arose. I may bring a little dropper of bleach just in case the light breaks or runs out of batteries. .3 ounces is a small enough weight penalty for that protection.

Matt, the new sensors are optical. all reports i've seen have shown they are more reliable. fingers crossed i can report good news at the canadian border later this year, legs and light willing.

Um, maybe the comment on smallpox was a joke. But if not, I think you're mistaken because there hasn't been a reported case of smallpox IN THE ENTIRE WORLD since 1978. So I doubt any PCT hikers got it last year.

FWIW, I knew of at least 20 PCT thru-hikers who got giardia in 2009. I used aquamira the entire way and had zero health problems. YMMV.

sorry I meant CHICKEN POX. small pox is absurd. I was watching something on blankets at the time. but yes CHICKEN POX for real. I don't know how he got it somewhere near mammoth though, and he had to be lifted out, as it got infected. but he got back on the trail in about 2 weeks cause his feet still worked.

"…cause his feet still worked."

For some reason, I thought this was hilarious…

The best water treatment method is gravity. 10 minutes of your time is worth it to know that all that stuff has sank to the bottom and you're bypassing most of it. I also use the Steripen Adventurer Opti (like 4oz w/batteries for the record).

Read the instructions well, take care of the batteries, and don't drop it. Basically all the same requirements as a water "filter". Instead of a filter to keep from freezing/dropping and cracking while field servicing… you have batteries to keep warm. Seems like a pretty nice trade off to me. It even has a little photon LED so I can leave my photon LED keychain backup light at home.

I use the coffee filter/bandana trick. Wait 10m for gravity to do its thing in my lil 2L tub, skim off the good stuff, treat with UV (takes 15-30 seconds), and DONE. I still carry a home made carbon filter for use against chemical agents in the event that the water has a lot of foam on top, or tastes funny. It is an emergency carbon filter, not for regular use. I normally just move on to a more suitable water source.

I think in the end that you'll find the steripen is good for use in place of the ultralight filters, all of them. I've heard 100x more problems with sub one pound water filters breaking, constantly needing back flushing, etc etc etc. If you compare the 4oz w/batteries steripen to these then it becomes a much more attractive option.

I still carry my aquamira too as backup but only enough for a day or so. For a few days out I dunno if the UV is worth it. I definitely would not put this at the top of my needed gear unless I was thinking about switching from the 1lb pump filters.

A lot of the reports of these breaking are from the fact that they shut off for service after 8000 treatments. A lot of people do 1/2L treatments and think they should get 16,000 but the circuit protection doesn't work this way for the UV lamp. The volume of treatment option is only there to add battery life in certain situations. The UV lamp is servicable and can be replaced for less than the cost of a new unit. The opti sensor works great compared to the old contact strips, and its a backup flashlight now as a result.

The customer service is horrible, warranty is so so. The button on the unit is the dumbest design ever. And the battery cover WILL break if you aren't a regular mechanical type pro at screwing things together. There's your downsides. So far I've had zero problems. Then again, I did read the instructions…

You can sew! That's great news. You can build a generously sized ~25 ounce quilt with 3" of 700 fp down for less than $100 and have lots of down left over.

Get your down from Feathertex and calendared 1.1 ounce ripstop nylon from Backwoods Dreamer.

Have you used feathertex before? is the '100% down' stuff they sell the 700 fill? Another good deal i found was 800 fill stuff from hammockgear.com for 6.50 an ounce, still twice the price of the '100% down' from feathertex.

I was very close to decided to make a down quilt. I have been living in Korea for a over a year now though, and I will not have much time to see my family and friends before time to head out to Campo as it is. The Golite 40% deal was too good to pass up, even if I dont have the pride and satisfaction of as much MYOG stuff. I still need to assemble a new bug bivy, maybe a tarp, some pants and modify a few other things + other trip planning things, so ill be a busy bee.

With that said, that stuff sounds like a great candidate for making a serious winter bag on the cheap. Thanks for the link.

As far as a water system, i think ill go with metal coffee prefilter, adventure opti from REI, and a tiny dropper of household bleach just in case. if anything goes wrong ill just go with bleach and cross my fingers my immune system will take of anything that survives it. Glad to hear it seems reliable enough. Ill certainly read the instructions

I haven’t used Feathertex before. I found out about it in this build thread:
http://wintertrekking.com/index.php?topic=873.0

According to that guy, the ‘100% down’ is 700 fill power. If you sold your leftover down for $2 an ounce, you’d probably cut the net cost of the quilt in half.

For the pants, if you’re thinking about using 1.9 oz/yd fabric, you might as well get tyvek pants. I think they’re about 2 ounces and cost a couple bucks from US Plastics. Just do some taping or extra stitching to prevent the seams from blowing out. You might appreciate the toughness of tyvek if you have go off trail on the south side of Fuller Ridge…it’s prickly there. It might be good enough to replace your trash bag skirt too.

I thought about the metal coffee filter too, but they seem so heavy. I’m thinking that I might mod cut up a water bottle into a funnel, but a paper coffee filter in it, and then use a ring made from the same bottle to lock the filter in place. A water bottle already only weighs a little more than an ounce. Cut off the bottom, remove the lid and maybe even the threaded portion of the spout and it can’t weigh much at all…and it’s about $10 cheaper to make.

If you change your water filtration, I would only go with a gravity filter. They’re simple, save time and may even save money over the course of your hike. You might be able to make a water bag that doubles as your wash bucket. A Sawyer SP121 is the lightest filter at 1.9 ounces. A slighter heavier and $20 less expensive option is the MSR Autoflow filter element…I have and really like this filter. The Autoflow filter can be made much lighter and smaller if you remove the outer rubber. Unfortunately I don’t have a scale, so I can’t tell you how much that would weigh. The bleach is always a good idea.

Pad – You might as well stick with what’s in your list unless you want more warmth, and then… Last year I carried a Pacific Outdoor Hyper Elite. It’s a tiny bit lighter than your Big Agnus, but it’s supposed to be much warmer. The foam underside offers a lot of protection for the inflatable section. The only problem is that it’s out of production. Maybe Juston still has his?
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=34669

As for your food bag, I carried an Ursack bear bag in Socal. I saw a mountain lion try to get into it multiple times from less than 10 yards from me, and apparently some rodents tried getting into it when I left it up in the mountains for 2 weeks while I attended ADZPCTKO. The mountain lion only left slobber marks and the rodents left very tiny holes that were too small for them to get any food. So I do think an Ursack is justified outside of bear country, and it does work against other critters.

I have some Fish Zole that I won’t be using and I should be at kickoff…

Umbrella is a really good idea at the beginning to help you get your tan without getting burned…some of the sunburned hands I saw last year were sickening.

You could probably chop a few ounces from your gear, but at your base weight, I don’t see the point in trying real hard. Make yourself comfortable and if you manage to save any money, use it to enjoy yourself more on zero days.

Hi, Bob,

"was on a group backpacking trip to a lake. Everybody who swam in the lake (and ingested some water) got sick from giardia. Everybody who did not swim in the lake did not get sick. The giardia victims started getting their symptoms at one week, and all had it by two weeks."

Did all of the people who got sick get tested for giardia and have the test come back positive? If not, then how do you know it was giardia? Very few people who believe they contracted giardiasis from backcountry water ever get tested for it, and of those who get tested, most have negative results. A meta-analysis of the literature in 2000 concluded that "the evidence for an association between drinking backcountry water and acquiring giardiasis is minimal."[Welch 2000] Giardia is a big problem in daycare centers and public swimming pools, but recent data show that its prevalence in the backcountry has been wildly exaggerated. Typical concentrations of Giardia cysts in the Sierra are ten times less than those found in San Francisco city water.[Rockwell 2002]

Assuming that your companions got sick from swimming, water treatment wouldn't have helped here.

Lakes are dirty compared to streams, especially the top layer of lakes. I normally don't treat my water if I'm in the Sierra, but I also don't take my water from lakes.

Matthew Zion's statement that "people get sick from not using adequate hygiene and not the water they drink" is exactly in line with the empirical evidence. A 1997 study found that among a large sample Appalachian Trail through-hikers, a majority of whom experienced diarrhea at least once, there was no correlation between the use of water treatment and the risk of diarrhea.[Mueser 1997]

Mueser 1997 – Roland Mueser, Long-Distance Hiking: Lessons from the Appalachian Trail, International Marine/Ragged Mountain Press, 1st edition, 1997, p. 96

Rockwell 2002 – Robert L. Rockwell, Sierra Nature Notes, Volume 2, January 2002, http://web.archive.org/web/20051026030831/www.yosemite.org/naturenotes/Giardia.htm

Welch 2000 – Welch 2000 – Welch, T.P. "Risk of giardiasis from consumption of wilderness water in North America: a systematic review of epidemiologic data," Int J Infect Dis. 2000;4:103100, http://download.journals.elsevierhealth.com/pdfs/journals/1201-9712/PIIS1201971200901024.pdf?refuid=S1080-6032(04)70498-6&refissn=1080-6032&mis=.pdf

I know this is an old thread, but it’s an important topic,

A 1997 study found that among a large sample Appalachian Trail through-hikers, a majority of whom experienced diarrhea at least once, there was no correlation between the use of water treatment and the risk of diarrhea.

A larger study of AT thru-hikers shows there IS a correlation Diarrhea is the most common illness limiting long-distance hikers. Hikers should purify water routinely, avoiding using untreated surface water. The risk of gastrointestinal illness can also be reduced by maintaining personal hygiene practices and cleaning cookware.

Very few people who believe they contracted giardiasis from backcountry water ever get tested for it Source? Or is that someone’s conjecture?

These people were tested: These results indicated that G. lamblia is endemic in Colorado and that drinking untreated mountain water is an important cause of endemic infection

In this poll over 10% of ALL respondents say they have had Giardia that was confirmed by lab tests.

I would like to point out that Welch and Rockwell, the authors of the two main cited papers, are at a relatively extreme end of the water treatment debate spectrum, and that there are few if any responsible agencies who agree with their conclusions. As I’ve publicly stated before, I fell for their rhetoric and paid for it with a bad case of Giardiasis.

My backpackers and Giardia manifesto