use poncho tarp as a ground sheet

Since the gatewood cape is a shaped tarp, it won't lie flat for you and will likely create a sorta weird shape. The silnylon's not particularly thick, either.

Bad idea– you end up with an expensive and rather heavy ground sheet and a dirty poncho full of holes.

Ground sheets are sacrificial items to protect the rest of your gear. Tyvek and polycro are two of the most popular sources. I have found overstock tent footprints on sale, but they are a little heavier, albeit tougher, and most have corner grommets or other attachments.

+1 on what Dale said.

If you are carrying a Gatewood Cape as a ground sheet, it would be heavy and expensive…better off using it as your shelter.

If you happen to use a bivy with your trailstar, do you really need a ground cloth?

I happen to use a MLD pocho tarp as my shelter and MLD bivy without a ground sheet.

In my case, I tend to keep almost all of my gear inside my bivy, except for water storage and cooking gear.

-Tony

thanks

i´m intending to go to the north of scandinavia (nordkalottleden or kungsleden), so i will have to deal with:

1. very strong winds, that why i will use the trailstar as a shelter

2. rain, that why i will need a poncho

3. protection from flowing water when raining, that why i want to use the poncho tarp, when i said ground sheet i meant to use it instead of bathtube floor , i will not use it when the ground is not wet, and when i use it i will put a polycro groundsheet
under that

4. bug protection, probably i will use sea to summit MOSQUITO "PYRAMID" NET SINGLE SHELTER

if you have another recommendation to answer these 4 needs, i would like to hear your opinions

thank you again :)

If you are expecting snow, I don't think the Trailstar would be your best option. The Trailstar is excellent in rain and wind but the walls are not steep enough for snow. You might want to consider a pyramid type shelter instead.

Check out BearPaw Wilderness designs for net inner tents. You can get a PyraNet1 or 2 that has been modified for the Duo and Trailstar

http://www.bearpawwd.com/shelters_floors/pyraNet1.html

Hope this helps,
Mike

A poncho won't add anything to the polycro. Rolling the edges of any ground sheet underneath will create a small ridge and *help* keep any running water under the ground sheet rather than running over the top. If the campsite is right, you can sweep debris to make a bump around your sleeping pad and raise the edge of your ground tarp. I have made a vee of material on the high side of my site to help divert water. In the old days, we would dig a slight groove to do the same, but Leave No Trace principals frown on that now. Of course, site selection is paramount, but you don't have good options all the time and heavily used sites have depressions in compacted soil that collect water.

Also, bathtub floors don't usually stand on their own; the ones I have used have attachments to hook to the shelter and hold the edges upright.

It is entirely possible to make a bathtub floor of Tyvek, using tape in the corners. I've done just that and it is quick. How well the sides stand up after folding and use is the question. Some sort of staking or inventing some light plastic braces would help.

Of course you can just buy a bathtub floor from a manufactured tent like a GoLite in the dimensions you require. As above, it will need help on the sides.

Any light rain gear used under your body weight will get damaged sooner or later. I appreciate that you are trying to get multiple use from a poncho, and it may add up on paper, but doesn't prove out in practical use.

so , as i use the trailstar as a shelter and the polycro as a floor

1. what would you recommand to add it ,

a bivy ,for exemple the adventure medical bivy thermo lite or the titanum goat bivy

or

a net inner as the bearpaw pyranet 1 or smd serenity

2. and generaly, wich one of the poncho tarp is the best ? (under 10 oz.)

If you can do it over, the SMD Gatewood for poncho and shelter and the mating bug net. The Gatewood is far superior to any poncho shelter, with 360 degree protection. Then you don't need a bivy.

You want a breathable bivy unless it is just for emergency shelter— that is the idea of the Adventure Medical, $35 for a light caught-out-for-a-night shelter. Otherwise it's gonna get like a greenhouse and your bag will get soaked.

If you just want a poncho, choose one that is long in the back to act as a pack cover. I use a GoLite for day hiking backup shelter. If you want SUL, there are some Cuben ones out there. There isn't a lot of rocket science in a poncho: the hood needs to be big enough for your head and some sort of side fasteners and lots of loops for lines. Add a quick and dirty belt of light line to any of them to help in the wind.

Like others said, this isn't 4 season stuff. A true poncho should be used with a bivy for good weather protection. The bivy protecting your bag from rain and the poncho giving top-end protection so you don't have to spend the whole night buttoned up tight and you can get in and out of the bivy without getting everything wet.

Snow requires another order of gear. +1 on a pyramid, which can then be used on any trip. Dig out some snow under a pyramid and you have a Winter castle with benches :)

Dale, I am getting a PyraNet 2 for use with MLD Trailstar and Duo. I have the option to get 10-inch bathtub walls instead of standard 3 inch walls. I am thinking about getting the taller walls for added protection and to give me option to pitch tarps higher when it's humid and rainy for better ventilation. Do you think the higher walls are a good idea and worth the couple of ounces? Or is it unnecessary overkill? Sorry, I don't mean to hijack this thread. –Mike

Flowing water should only occur if you pitched in a bad spot and could be a problem when there is a pinhole in any floor, including a high walled bathtub. I've heard many stories of people with a bathtub full of water because they pitched in a bad location.

As long as you watch where you pitch, you shouldn't have an issue. If you have to pitch somewhere that water could flow, you can setup an obstacle with branches or rocks. Or in the worst case dig a small trench to divert the water away from your shelter.

Steven, Thanks for your comments. I guess I was thinking more about wind-blown rain rather than flowing water on the ground. Yes, site selection is key. Your points are well taken. Mike

Sometimes you don't have a choice for campsite and sometimes there are water patterns that you miss, particularly if you come in after dark. Stuff happens. I have had instances where I had running water under my ground sheet and was dry due to some easy precautions.

Interesting question on the height of the walls. I have used simple bathtub floors with no mesh, so taller ones weren't much of an option. With the bug mesh and the pyramid shape, 10" is possible. 10" sounds like a lot, but after looking at the photos, I realized that 10" becomes more like 7"-8" vertical height because of the angle of the walls. I would opt for the taller walls, which would give more venting options and would be more durable as well.

I have read this thread with interest, having spent almost 2 weeks on the Nordkalottleden Trail in July 2010, walking from Björkliden to Kilpisjärvi reports are here. My experiences were rain for one third of the time, sun for one third of the time and mosquitos for the other third.

I used a Stephensons 2CR Tent, which worked fine in all conditions including some very windy nights. I own a Trailstar but my main concern is mossies, which in some places (above treeline) in breezy positions were quite active. For this reason I would not use my Trailstar. After reading many of the local blogs for lapland, it seems to me that a speedmid with netting around the edges will work fine, as it will provide bug protection and if needed a bug head net can be used in adverse conditions. The speed mid is ideal in my view as well it will shed wind rain and snow. For a groundsheet I would use tyvek.

As for wet weather gear, I experienced high winds and snow, and would prefer to use a coat and overpants, not a poncho, because of the winds.

My planned trip for 2011 to the Nordkalottleden will reflect my gear choices as outlined above.

Dale, Good points. I think I will go for the option of higher walls for when stuff happens : ) Good luck, Mike