Help me lighten/refine my approach to water treatment (FirstNeed vs. filter+tabs vs. steripen vs. ??)

Yeah, it was one of the first batch out. I can deal with flipping the batteries.
I have been doing it for a few years, now. All electrinic based switching require some form of idle current. Soo, they all have a little current drain. If I plug in a new set of batteries, they will be flat within a week, with 0 uses. Verrry high. If I flip one battery, I get about 30 uses. The few seconds of fiddling doesn't bother me as long as I understand the problem. When I break this one, or wear it out, I will get another gadget. It has it's uses, even if it weighs a bit more.
Thanks!
jdm

James wrote, " The "off" drain was quite high."

Methinks your Adventurer was defective perhaps. I say this because I never take the batteries out of my Steripen Adventurer in-between uses. The batteries have stayed for months and months in between my travels and they retain their charges. There was no "off" drain noticeable.

I've only really used the Katadyn Hiker, but in the pursuit of lightening up, I'm planning on trying the combination of chlorine tablets and Aquamira Frontier Pro to remove the grit and some of the taste of the chlorine. Nipple is cut off of the Frontier Pro and I "pump" water through by squeezing the Platy- IMHO even easier than operating a hand pump like the Katadyn.

Still use a SweetWater Walk-About (gasp!), because although not quite as quick as the Pur Hiker, the cartridges last many months, it is only a little over a half pound, very effective, occupies less space and cleans easily. Most important, it produces several quarts of potable water in just a few minutes. No waiting. And no cooties in the water. And the pump sucks water out of places where you can not even scoop up much with a cup. Never have had it fail on me.

Also like the way the input and output tubes wrap around the filter to store without touching each other.

Had a smaller and lighter pump called the Pioneer from Pur, that I liked better; but when Pur was bought out, they stopped producing the replaceable filter disks.

It is sometimes a drag to have to sit beside a water source in the pouring rain for a few minutes to get a few quarts to take back under the tent, but this has never been a big deal.

And in our must-have society I kind of like not being concerned about instant gratification. The few minutes spent by the water source are a chance to reflect.

Unfortunately, the manufacturers' attempts to make smaller and lighter pumps have not worked out well (see many BPL reviews); but if something as good and also smaller and lighter were available, I would switch. But not to chemicals. Don't think many people fully appreciate the extent to which toxic chemicals have affected us, especially our children.

> The "off" drain was quite high.

This is correct. The early Steripen units had a problem with a very high 'off' current drain that did flatten batteries. This was fixed, so that the off-state current drain on current units is now quite small.
But I still isolate the batteries between trips. Why not?
In fact, the latest Steripen Adventurer Opti come with a small bit of plastic meant for doing just this. Very nice of them. You will find it in the battery compartment I think.

Cheers

I really want to thank everyone who weighed in on this, it was a HUGE help to hear everyones thoughts. After going through the debate in my mind, in this thread, and in all the other threads that touch on this issue throughout the forum I'm feeling much less stressed about the general notion of water treatment as a whole.

For the time being I'll be planning on a SteriPen with some kind of chemical back up in case something goes wrong. Still need to figure out specifics: what kind of bottle I'll be using, etc. but I'm sure I'll get it dialed in as time goes on. And I'm sure I'll revisit the matter as the places I hike, style, and other context changes.

The important part is that I feel a lot better informed to make a choice that makes sense for me, given my situation.

..so thanks!

Nice to hear that Klear Water from XiniX is coming back. I actually still have some in my refridgerator but it won't last forever. One thing about Klear Water or Micropur tablets is that the active ingredient is the same; chlorine-dioxide.

Klear Water claims to purify a liter in 15 minutes for everything but chrypto (which we really don't get in the US). The really cool thing about Klear Water is that a one liter dose will purify a gallon if you let it sit overnight. I use a 3oz 6L collapsible water tank to hold the water overnight and then I have enough water in the morning to drink, cook breakfast, and hike with for most of the day. You can also share the water with your friends. :)

Disclaimer: I hike primarily in the Sierras so most likely the water is fine already. Even so, it's nice to have a little insurance.

I, too, use a chlorine dioxide method (liquid AquaMira — be careful not to splash the solution on your clothes!) and I don't always wait four hours to ensure all oocysts are treated. But I know that's a bit of a gamble. I used to work for the water supply utility for a large NE US city. Crypto is a concern everywhere; we commissioned a risk analysis and found that both crypto and giardia were more common in people with children in day care than in hikers or 3rd world travelers. Take a look at wikipedia's listing of crypto outbreaks in the developed world (US, UK and Australia) if you don't believe me.

What packages/bottles are people using instead of the monstrously heavy/large bottles of Aquamira A and B? I don't need all that for a couple of days–rather not carry if I don't have to.

Dropstopper bottles work well. BPL and others sell them.

I've had a lot of leakage problems with those Dropstopper bottles, especially when I am doing a huge elevation change and the pressure doesn't get equalized.

–B.G.–

Bob:

Never say never, but the dropstopper bottles I purchased from BPL and Gossamer Gear have worked well for me over the last 6 years — be it hiking or international traveling — A.M. liquids, chlorine, 100% DEET solution, alcohol, eye drops, nose drops, antifungal drops, etc. Not one single case of leakage even when flown in airplanes. The plastic tips will eventually break after numerous times of yanking out and snapping back in when refilling liquids.

Because I already drink from a platy hoser while hiking, I just use a Sawyer in-line filter connected to the hose. The filter itself is available at most any Walmart in the outdoors section (it is included in a nalgene style bottle kit). The weight added by the filter to the platy hoser is very small (don't remember the spec right off hand) and there's no keeping track of wait time, no batteries to go dead, no addition of bad tastes, no iodine to develop a reaction to, etc. Fill the bladder, screw on the hose, hike, drink.

I've just recently gone to this setup, and have limited trail miles on it thus far, so time will tell whether the filter becomes clogged in too short a time frame to be reliable for long trips, but initial results are promising.

I'd suggest the Katadyn Hiker, and some tabs. That would eliminate everything. The Filter is fairly light and it's a great filter. I was using a eye dropper with bleach in it but the tabs are easier and don't taste so strong. I don't use them as directed though. I only use one for everytime I fill up my camelback which is 3L. The filter takes out a lot of stuff and leaves you with some great tasting water the tabs are just for the viruses.

Dan & Eric,

MEC write-up says Aqua Tabs aren't effective against crypto cysts. (Well at least I won't be waiting 4 hours because it won't do any good anyway).

So for overly cautious me that means I'd be filtering the water anyway.

Daryl

Greg,

I've read some of the info on Klearwater and like the sound of it. I see it is sold here at BPL too.

It says it kills crypto….which is good and something not claimed by Aqua Tabs.

Even if I carried the whole glass bottle (3 ounces) I'd be saving over a half pound from my current filter protocol.

I'm wary however and waiting to find, in small print, that killer clause (for me) that it takes 4 hours to kill crypto cysts. Have you seen any disclaimer like that?

I can see how Klearwater could reduce the 4 hour kill-crypto-cysts time by, say, a half hour because it gets going faster than Aqua Mira. I don't understand how it could knock it all the way down to 1/2 hour, however. (My lack of understanding, of course, doesn't mean it isn't true.)

Can you (or anyone else) shed more light on the Klearwater's effectiveness with crypto cysts or anything else that is typically in the 4 hour treatment category?

Daryl

One of the arguments for chemicals and against UV treatments is weight.

I recently thought about this and disagree and am leaning towards UV, with a small chemical backup from now on.

I feel that UV saves weight by not requiring that you carry as much water.

When I use chemicals, I couldn't drink it right away and would then have to carry it while the chemical does it's thing. That meant that I had to carry 1/2 to 1 liter of extra water that I could have drank at the source if I had used UV instead of chemicals.

If you are in an area with lots of water sources, you don't have to carry much if any water with UV. With chemical, you always have to have water going through the treatment process.

Also, UV disables all the organisms instantly. Chemicals often have a hard time with the larger organisms like Guardia. Filters are not very effective against viri, so are not a good choice in a lot place in the world.

I have a Steripen, and sometimes I use it; but then I worry about how effective it is, so I usually go ahead and treat with chemicals, too. This obviously isn't the most efficient (and lightest) way to deal with water treatment, so I've considered just leaving the pen behind. But I do like the idea of treating water without chemicals. Does anyone have access to statistics about the efficacy of Steripens? Also, I'm not clear how the pen works. Is there any chance that it will become less effective as the battery gets weaker?

type "steripen efficacy site:backpackinglight.com" into google, and you'll get all the info you need. and then some.

From what I understand Steripen is the most reliable of all treatments other than boiling.
If you don't see the bulb light up, it isn't working if you do see it light, it is working.

Filters elements can get damaged, chemicals can become unreliable over time, ….

I took a tour of a small town water treatment facility and they were using a large UV system. The person in charge said for a small community water treatment system, UV is the most reliable.

If the UV bulb dies, the water stops flowing, but in this case, I believe they had a backup bulb that kicks in.

Several years ago, when the Adventurer was first released, I got it and used it part time. I always carried a backup for about the number of days I planned to be out.

Last fall was really the first trip that I only carried backup for one day, and relied on the Steripen for the rest of my time out. Before that, I was using the mUv device. But this went through more batteries.

Anyway, 2 sets of Lithium photo batteries at $4 each = $16. This was fairly expensive. The Aqua Mira tabs I carried were worth about 2 dollars. Soo, from a battery standpoint, it is not cheap.

That said, it is worth it in weight for most area's I hike. I simply do not have to carry more than one liter (actually, a bit more, two .6L bottles.) Mostly I hike in NY, the High Peaks, Central Regions, NPT, etc, and along the Finger Lakes Trail (NCT) in southern NY. I also do a lot of canoing in the same areas.

The Opti is even lighter. My worry was always fumbling it and dropping it, breaking the lamp.
But, careful positioning away from rocks and boulders have proven this to be an OK strategy for use. Soo, it is highly recommended for multi day outings.

In other areas, without ready access to water sources, probably not so good. For long trips, I go back to AM drops. I have found that many resupply stores do not carry the photo batteries. Rechargeables work, but hold about 1/3 as much as lithium batteries and need recharging. With 4 sets of the heavier batteries, I am better off with extra water weight and AM drops for week long and more outings. Alone?? Maybe two weeks…

The down side is that like chemicals, it is statistically based. Mostly this is OK. It may not work on macrobiotics. Tapeworm eggs, flukes, and others can slip by.

Always plan some sort of backup if you suspect the water is bad. Filtering may be necessary. Silt, or any amounts of debris in the water, may negate the treatment. Use common sense. If it is silty or really junked up with stuff, filter it before UV. Usually, a bandana is enough, but a coffee filter may be needed for some. Isle Royal has a lot of tape worms, would you use UV there? Boil water if you think it might be bad. This will ALWAYS work against anything that will make you sick. But, chemicals, heavy metal contamination can still slip by even boiling. Indeed, boiling may make some forms of contaminants worse by increasing concentrations of them.

There is no one guaranteeed safe methode. Some chemical contaminants are removed by filtering, but others pass right through. Anyway, most water is safe enough to drink. Use your senses when you come across a new source. Smell, touch (slimey or sticky water is not usually good), look (is it bright red?), and after treatment, taste a sample (if your body says spit it out, do it…lead salts can be invisable, but deadly…) More often you can simply drink, without treatment. On occasion you cannot drink it because of the high number of baddies. Your body's senses will usually let you know.

James,

Useful info. Thanks.

Question

If you have to dip your water bottle into a stream to fill it…how do you disinfect the water on the outside of the bottle (e.g. in the threads) and/or how do you avoid getting that water in your mouth when you drink from the bottle?

Daryl

I ran some numbers on this a few years ago but don't have them at hand at the moment. But here's the concept.

For me, a filter carrying cystaphobic, boiling may be the lightest option for a 2 night trip. Here's the logic.

Leave filter at home and boil all the water. Hydrate well before starting. I start with 2 quarts in my pack. I'm already carrying a cannister stove but I only need 1 ounce for cooking so, with a full cannister, I'm carrying a net of about 7 ounces extra weight. I can boil a lot of water with 7 ounces of fuel and that fuel weighs less than my filter.

This is a real plus in cold weather because it is hard for me to drink cold water in cold weather. Plus heating the water helps heat me while doing it. If I'm a little dehydrated after coming out on the third day I can drink to my hearts content on the drive home.

I still don't like the idea of eating cooked bugs but it is better than eating live ones.

Thanks. The BPL threads were very helpful. A previous post included a small excerpt from Wikipedia that prompted me to search for more information there.

The article below really helped to clarify the issues for me. It was definitely worth reading. A few highlights are copied below the link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_water_purification#Ultraviolet_purification

…Hydro-Photon introduced the portable UV water purifer, with the brand name SteriPEN. These UV water purifiers are lightweight and work very quickly. Still, there are limits to this technology.. Water turbidity (i.e., the amount of suspended & colloidal solids contained in the water to be treated) must be low, such that the water is clear, for UV purification to work well… In the event that such UV-treated water containing neutered microbes is exposed to visible light…there becomes a possibility for repairing the damage in the bacteria's reproduction DNA, potentially rendering them once more capable of reproducing and causing disease…UV-treated water must therefore not be exposed to visible light for any significant period of time after UV treatment, before consumption, to avoid ingesting reactivated and dangerous microbes…A viable two-step portable water purification approach, providing greater protection than UV purification alone, is to first filter suspect water, thereby removing the larger pathogens, prior to using UV purification…

After reading the Wikipedia article, I think if I carry my Steripen, I'll trust if for clear water, but not for turbid water. In that case even if I use my Steripen I'll back up the treatment with chemicals. But I'll carry fewer of them, and that will help to lighten my pack. I also agree that drinking some water on the spot would lighten the overall load. In some areas where I hike, small, clear streams cross the trail frequently enough to make this a real advantage.

I've been using Opti on a few trips

A green LED comes on when it's done, indicating successful completion

If you accidentally lift the unit out of the water, it stops and LED is red.

If the batteries die, the LED turns red.

I use rechargeable batteries. $25 at amazon.com for 4 batteries plus charger. Each 2 batteries are good for maybe 16 liters. Non-rechargeable batteries last twice as long. Jury is still out how good these batteries work.

The last time I used it, it abruptly stopped, no LED. I just filled my 4 liter water bottle and went back to camp. New batteries, now it worked. I treated 1 liter to drink, then the other 3 liters were heated up for something, so I just boiled it slightly longer than I would normally.

I don't think you have to worry about untreated drops on the outside. If a tiny bit eventually made it's way into your stomach it wouldn't matter. You have to injest a certain number of organisms to get infected. If there are 400 "drops" per ounce, then 1 drop is 0.002% of 1 gallon which is better than many filter effectiveness numbers.

What would Jeremiah Johnson have done to his water?

–B.G.–