40L Framed Pack Recommendation?

[Patrick B]

It feels like I’m shooting for the moon here, but what I’m trying to find is a good mix of features roughly around 40L. My main use cases (in order of priority):

1. Ultralight trips (3-5 days)
2. Weekend climbing trips (frame will help lugging all the extra gear)
3. Travel backpack

Here’s a summary of where my research has gotten me. My typical load is pretty light (base weight around 8-9 lbs), and so I’m thinking something in the 40L range would work well for up to 5 days on ultralight trips.

While there’s a lot of really nice looking frameless packs out there by ULA/MLD/Gossamer Gear, I feel that I need something with a frame because I’d like to use this pack on climbing trips for hauling gear around, so I’ll quickly go over the comfort limits of a frameless pack.

One good and versatile-looking option I’ve seen is the HMG Windrider 2400, but the hip pockets are on the small side (would be great to fit a large phone or small camera), and it’s quite pricey. Other good options I’ve seen are the Gossamer Gear Gorilla, and SMD Flight 40.

It can be hard to find extensive reviews on a lot of these, and probably there’s some options I haven’t seen yet, so I wanted to post here to see if anyone else has feedback.

Thanks!!

[Don Burton]

I have a gorilla which sounds like it’d meet your needs. I’d look for the previous version as it’s about 5-6 oz lighter and if you’re base weight is that low you wouldn’t need the load carrying capabilities of the new version. You can also remove the aluminum stay (I think you can do it with all of the ones you mentioned though). I also have a 2400 Windrider. You’re right, the hipbelt pockets are abnormally small. It’s great but it may be a little overkill for you. Also, I wouldn’t want to use it as a travel pack. Plus, the large, outside pocket is mesh so when traveling everything in there would be visible. For travel purposes, the gorilla would be less conspicuous.

[Patrick B]

Ahh crap, it actually looks like GG stopped making the Gorilla? Their website says it’s out of stock, and their 2 other 30-40L packs are frameless.

@Don what can you typically fit in your Windrider pockets?

[Mercedes Clemens]

Per GG’s homepage: “08/24//2016 Thank you for your patience! We will have first quality Mariposas and Gorillas back in stock before the end of August! Love, Glen, Grant, Jersey, and Rhett.”

[Matthew S]

Check out my video below on the KS40 from KS Ultralight. Mine’s 16oz and has two metal frame stays.

It’s 40L, lighter than a Gorilla or Arcblast, is available in 210 dyneema for your cragging type trips. I would bet he would make you one in 330 or 500 if you wanted. I did 4 trips this summer with this bag and it hasn’t presented any weaknesses to me. In my video I have a 3/4in Gossamer Gear sit light pad acting as the back pad. That was overkill and I now use a nice 1/2in flat pad.

[Patrick B]

Wow @Matthew that looks awesome and exactly what I was looking for. What was the turnaround and shipping cost for you? I have a trip in 8 weeks I’d really like to use this new bag for, so I’m concerned if it’s being shipped from Japan + some lead time it might be too long.

[Barry Cuthbert]

Exped Lightning 45 

Never used it but the pack has had some good reviews

[Matthew S]

He built mine in 1.5 weeks, it got from Japan to NYC in 2 days, and customs held it for 10 business days. Ask him what his lead time is.

[Michael M]

Dig that bag Matthew, one of the reasons I’m interested in the GG Gorilla is the sit light pad and its secondary use as a pillow (drops 3oz off my total weight). What do you mean by the pad being overkill? Did it suck with it or just that you didn’t need the thickness? Also one of the reasons I’m not keen on the Arc is the external frame any concerns on the external frame and possible damage on more challenging trips?

[Matthew S]

The 3/4in thickness was overkill. I use a piece of an Oware 1/2 pad and it fits the pad pockets better. You could still use the GG sit light, I just thought the 1/2 pad was a tad better.

As for the durability of the stays, the aluminum stays are easton aluminum and sturdy. I could only see the stays getting damaged by throwing a bag of a small cliff. I can’t really think of a hiking scenario where these stays would fail.

[Don Burton]

I just put some of my snacks in one pocket. Kind bar, mini snickers, beef jerky. In the other pocket I put Chapstick, and a small tube of sunblock. I could fit more but it’s not worth it.

[Patrick B]

@surfcam310 are the side pockets really accessible? wondering if i could put a phone or camera there instead?

[Serge Giachetti]

I’d highly recommend the katabatic artemis. Its a 60 liter pack, but it compresses really well, and I’m pretty sure you could get it in a 40 as well. It carries loads up to about 40lbs quite well, but also carries lighter loads well. None of the packs that have been mentioned so far I would consider tough enough for long term cragging, but the artemis has a considerably tougher fabric while still be fairly light. The hipbelt pockets are also huge and stretchy, so you can always cram more. I keep gloves and buff & sunscreen in one pocket and enough snacks for the day in the other. The other reason its great for travel is the large external zip pocket can hold everything you need for quick access and yet it will keep things secure.

[Rick M]

I would get a minimalist climbing pack like the Patagonia Ascensionist with lots of attachment points to add third party pocket modules, etc. you may want for hiking and traveling. They can be had rather cheaply on seasonal closeout sale too. I think I paid ~$75 for my 45L. The backpad is stiff enough that I rarely use the frame. It is fairly weather resistant too. I also have a GG Murmur and Kumo for trekking.

[James holden]

i would not use an UL pack for climbing or hauling climbing gear around rocks … the packs generally arent tough enough especially those with mesh

climbing gear (especially trad gear) is hard on packs with a lot off odd shaped and some pointy objects … when you rub up against the rock with a few cams pushing out from the inside of the pack fabric, it puts alot of wear on that spot and easily leads to abrasion which youll eventually want to seal seal

also youll be constantly setting it down on rough and pointy rocks even if you just use it for cragging

anything less than 210D nylon is just asking for a blown pack in short order … and even 210D packs will wear out pretty quick with enough use … you really need a reinforced or double layered bottom as well

now there are probably some tough light packs made out of 400D+ fabric that can haul loads decently well

;)

 

[James L]

I think one bag you are overlooking here is the ULA OHM 2.0 which is about a 45 ltr pack

The pack has the hoop suspension frame which DOES transfer weight well enough to the hipbelt. The way bit ties into the belt also allow the pack to move well with you for scrambling. The hipbelt and shoulder straps on the OHM are about as good as it gets in a lightweight pack.

Also. with the accessory straps and pouches removed the OHM is about. 27 ounces with the hip pockets, which is only 1 oz more than a ZPacks Ar haul with added hip pockets.

One more thing- to most folks who have owned one,the OHM has perhaos the best designed front and side pockets of any UL pack .The Robic fabric the side pockets and main bag are made from is about as tough as it gets for real UL packs.

[James L]

Another great pack would be the 40ltr Katabatic Helios in the VX -42 X pack.

It ticks off all off all the boxes for about 36oz.

[Patrick B]

@jimmerul You make a convincing point, and that one has kept popping up the more I research. It looks super functional in all the right ways and also has a pretty sleek look to it imho. I’m really tempted by it and yours is the latest in a long string of super positive reviews for it.

@bearbreeder I think ultimately you’re right. I don’t think I’ve been able to find a pack that can do both trekking and climbing really well. The ones I have found, the Exped Flight 45 for example, seem to sacrifice one thing or the other (weight, pockets, straps, organization etc) such that you end up with a meh experience no matter what you do.

So right now for me it’s between the Ohm that @jimmerul mentioned and the HMG Windrider, if I’m willing to spend a little more on the burlier fabric. It seems to have a really good balance of features for both trekking and climbing without making too many sacrifices one way or the other. And also I have a good mix of Alpine climbing and weekend cragging so I probably don’t need all of the features of a full-fledged cragging pack.

Here’s how I see these two packs for the use cases I originally described. Please let me know if I’m thinking about this all wrong.

ULA Ohm

• Trekking: 10
• Climbing: 4
• Travel: 7

HMG Windrider

• Trekking: 8
• Climbing: 7
• Travel: 4

[Nick D]

I very recently did a comparison on the two packs you’re considering.

For the record, I sent the HMG back.

 

[James holden]

patrick …

for actual climbing in the pack (5th class alpine climbing) i would really suggest getting a dedicated alpine pack as …

• youll eventually tear out the back mesh … when you sit down at belays youll rub the pack roughly against the rock all the time, theres simply no getting around this … also  chimneys and notches are hell on packs …
• you need a pack that fits over a harness well … the hipbelts on some non climbing packs might be too bulky to go over a waist belt … in fact many alpine packs have a low profile waits belt that can be tucked or strapped away for this reason
• the pack should be low profile … the minimum amount of features that can get snagged on the rock … pockets, external stays, unneeded straps, etc …. its should also be SLIM fitting  and the weight distribution should be a tad higher than some hiking packs …remember youll already be wearing a harness with a rack, so you dont want a pack that gets wider at the bottom
• the climbing balance on a climbing pack needs to be very good … especially on longer moderate climbs, balance is EVERYTHING  … to fall is to die (or get seriously hurt) … you need to be able to comfortably solo low 5th class at minimum with the pack .. you also need to make sure you have full shoulder mobility, and there are no air gaps on the back, the pack should be form fitting … the best way to test this is to take the pack to the climbing wall

now im sure there are folks who have used UL packs for 5th class climbing … but for most folks its not ideal durability, fit and balance wise i suspect

my suggestion would be to keep the 2 separate … or default to an alpine pack which can easily be used for backpacking any time (the inverse may not be true)

i dont own a HMG but had the opportunity to try one on this summer …  the fit and shape of the pack is essentially an alpine pack … the higher denier black option may be advisable though

oh and one thing … for climbing dont worry one bit about external pockets, especially water bottle pockets …

years ago i took someone up a climb and they insisted on putting their water bottle in a pocket ( i told em it was a bad idea) … sure enough half way up the water bottle fell out and almost smacked a party below, who rightfully shouted out alot of explexitives

;)

 

[Matthew S]

KS Ultralights Alpisak has an option for a removable big back mesh pouch; the typical one found on all packs. So with that removed you can have a crag bag, and when you just want to hike with it, put the pouch back on to store a wet tarp etc.

Look here, 2nd option from the bottom of the page.

http://www.ks-ultralightgear.com/p/ks-alpisack.html

He will make whatever bag you want. I estimate the bag you want in 330D would weigh ~17oz.

Edit: His R-50 or R-35 has the same removable option and it’s made with 1000D fabric.

[Patrick B]

Awesome video @stumpjumper!! I love that you’ve tried all the Zpacks/ULA/GG/Katabatic Gear packs.

What was the ultimate reason you returned the HMG?

[Jennifer Mitol]

I’ll throw another shout out to the katabatic gear packs.

I’ve been through A LOT of packs…and this one is the bomb. Get it in the VX, and if you want it for traveling I’ll second the vote on the artemis vs the helios (which is the one I have).  That 40L ticks pretty much all of your boxes

[Alex Wallace]

For travel & climbing I’d want burly fabrics and a removable hipbelt. Have you checked out some of Black Diamond’s packs? How about the Stone 45?

[James L]

Frankly, about the only downside to the ULA OHM 2.0 would be as a travel bag. It lacks outer organisational pockets and even 210 Denier fabrics lack the toughness of the heavier 400+ Corduras…but then again ,all true UL packs also lack a bit in those features..

Some bright spots for the OHM as a travel pack (and as a climbing bag) are-

Slim design. Fits in overheads and nice snug and secure front and side pockets.The security of the side pockets can be improved by adding a draw string and cordlock along the top hem to really cinch em up tight when needed.

The hip belt IS removable. I think this is huge and overlooked compared to some other bags. Remove it and tuck it in the bottom of the bag for travel or climbing. Without the hipbelt, a stripped OHM 2.0 weighs about 18 oz and still has the great shoulder harness and front/side pockets.

BTW, I chose a Black OHM as my yeoman backpacking and hunting pack. A lot of the requirements for a hunting pack are the same as a climbing pack in terms of being trim and allowing freedom of movement.

One other advantage to the OHM is the fact that it is sewn by a familly run shop right in the USA.  It also does NOT cost $300 to $400 like some of the bags mentioned here.

A comparable KS bag mentioned with the same feature set as the OHM 2.0-pockets hipbelt etc etc would cost about $350 not including any import duty.. I went on the site and added it all up. And the resulting pack would weigh nearly the same.

Same with most any other custom US maker.There is no free lunch here..but the OHM is certainly a heck of a “value meal”..lol

The OHM is $215 shipped.Which is one reason  why ULA sells a bunch of them.

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