Montane eVENT® Quick-Fire and Superfly and Other Light eVENT Jackets

[D P]

Does anyone have any experience with 66north’s eVent products? Overpriced to begin with, but decent deals in their outlet section. No weights specified on the website either, although claims to being “lightweight” often referenced.

[Ethan A.]

I think Richard nailed it – the question simply is whether eVENT itself (not seams) maintains waterproofness over time. Does anyone have any information on this?

Bad seams will leak in any material, Gore-Tex, Patagonia proprietary, Montbell proprietary, etc.

Welded seams are good that way, far more waterproof than sewn seams.

[Chris Jackson]

Water can leak into the pocket of the ID event jacket via two routes. First, some of the exterior pocket seams are not taped. Second, the ID logo is sewn onto the pocket, and the sewing is not taped.

All the interior seams of the jacket are taped, so the interior ought to remain dry even when the pocket gets wet.

[David Morrow]

eVent is a teflon film laminate applied to a synthetic base fabric, such as nylon. The weight of the overall fabric is usually dictated by the nylon part – the event film wieghs very little. Usually a scrim, or third protective layer, is added to the inner part of the garment to minimize abrasion. Thus, the fabric is three layers. An alternative is to omit the scrim but then a drop-in liner is necessary to reduce tearing and abrasion of the teflon film. A two layer eVent jacket without this protection would never hold up for backpacking.

Showers Pass makes a three-layer eVent jacket using 40 denier nylon shell fabric, as the fibres are not as tightly woven as 20 denier, so the garment breathes better. The Showers Pass Elite weighs about 13.5 ounces in a large, and the hood is an extra 2 ounces. We opted for the 40 denier nylon instead of the lighter 20 denier because we wanted performance (moisture transmission) and durablity.

hope this helps,

Dave Morrow
Showers Pass Clothing

[David Morrow]

eVent does not license their product to everyone who wants it. It took us a year or so to qualify – they are very strict.

Dave Morrow
Showers Pass Clothing

[kevin davidson]

Patagonia could have gotten eVENT if it wanted to—it opted not to. You will hear various reasons why.

[Chris Jackson]

Dave, my impression is that most peakbaggers prefer a rain jacket with an integrated hood, particularly for cold conditions. Also, many readers of this UL forum are prepared to trade some durability, features and breathability for reduced weight, hence the popularity of the patagonia specter (6.5 oz) and OR zealot (~7 oz). Some want pitzips, others don’t. ID make several minimalist jackets from 3.0 oz/yd Event fabric. An UL jacket made out of the lightest Event (2.5 oz/yd ?) might fill an UL niche market.

[Aaron Sorensen]

I really like that this topic is getting the respect it deserves.
I have 2 event jackets and they are both awesome.

PIT ZIPPS, you don’t need them on an Event Jacket. Completely unnecessary. With all of the comments about EVENT, there are a few things that haven’t really been said. There are a few strong and weak, (if you want to call it that), points when dealing with event.

1. Event works amazingly on both being waterproof, breathable, and has excellent wicking ability, but…

2. The fabric is too breathable. It is great for more strenuous exercise and warmer climates. Because of the breathability issues though, if it is cold and windy or if you are not being active and it is windy, it gets very cold with the jacket on.

So if you use the fabric for what it’s intended for it works better than you can imagine.
In the hiking community, this fabric does not replace a wind shell, when necessary like a Gore-Tex jacket might.

[EndoftheTrail]

Aaron:

So we can get a better understanding, can you describe some of your hiking conditions that convinced you that pit zips are unnecessary for an eVENT jacket? Thanks in advance!

[Miguel Arboleda]

“2. The fabric is too breathable. It is great for more strenuous exercise and warmer climates. Because of the breathability issues though, if it is cold and windy or if you are not being active and it is windy, it gets very cold with the jacket on.

I agree with this. My Superfly is colder than my Montane LiteSpeed. You can actually feel cold air seeping through the eVent fabric. When it is windy and cold I always wear both the Superfly and the LiteSpeed around camp just so that I can retain heat. For me the Superfly is mainly a rain shield; I don’t use it for warmth. Pit zips just seem redundant to me on such a breathable fabric.

[kevin davidson]

You guys just don’t exert enough effort. I took an eVENT jacket (ID) up and over Horse Creek Pass in the Sierra during rainy conditions last year. It got pretty clammy and I wanted pitzips. My Paclite Goretex jacket w/ pitzips (Golite Phantom) actually would have been more comfortable under similar conditions. Ironic, because I have noticed the air infiltration effect before.
Doubly ironic because although eVENT passes and wicks moisure better than any other W/B, it doesn’t do it very much better than the latest iteration of Paclite.

[Miguel Arboleda]

Kevin, I had to laugh when I read about the level of my effort. I guess I wasn’t very clear in my writing. I meant to say that the eVent is cold when standing still and sitting about in camp. When walking the Superfly is great! Maybe I sweat less than you do, but I usually have no trouble with sweat build up on cold days while climbing even very hard alpine trails. On warmer days, at least here in Japan where humidity is always high, I usually get so hot in anything that I wear that I will simply let myself get wet in my base layer and not wear any rain gear, except a rain hat. The heat I generate very quickly dries out my clothes. If I start to get a little cold I will put on my Superfly to warm up a little and keep the rain off me.

[Aaron Sorensen]

Benjamin,
Just agreeing with the others. When it’s windy and you are standing around, it gets cold.
Every time I wear the jacket, its ventilation is soo good that just the movement of my arms and body is enough to keep the jacket breathing as good as it needs to. Of course of all the hiking I have done in this jacket, I have not been in clammy conditions with it at all. Every time it’s rained it’s cold and windy for me. If in different conditions, I could see where Pit-Zips would help.

Kevin
You stated

(Doubly ironic because although EVENT passes and wicks moisture better than any other W/B, it doesn’t do it very much better than the latest iteration of Paclite).

I also have a jacket with the latest iteration of Paclite.
I got it to take the place of my Event jacket and wind shirt when I do the JMT next year.
I only pray that I don’t have to wear it in the rain if it’s hot out. Although the moisture wicking is desent, I think my Event jacket does the job at least 5 times better.
Sorry, I just believe that Event is far superior to any other fabric out there.
The only thing that comes close is the Schoeller Dynamic fabric, but it locks dirt into its fabric way too easily.

[kevin davidson]

Just not my experience, Aaron. Nor do lab or field tests seem to bear out that eVENT is many times more “breathable” than say, Packlite III. There’s so much hyperbole given over to the performance of W/B fabrics (endemic from the early days of Goretex)—- please not to add to it. Universal statements like “eVENT is better than any other other fabic out there” tend to go down in flames. Given a specific situational criteria, eVENT (or another fabric— insert trademarked name here)a case might be made for it’s superiority in something. Also, I suspect terms need to be defined–we’re talking breathability and wicking and moisture transmission which are not necessarily interchangable ideas— so perhaps we’re talking past each other.

As to the pit-zip matter—thank goodness Montane at least pays attention to core-venting in their latest eVENT jacket designs, even if it’s not in the form pit-zips. Their mesh backed oversize pockets are a reasonable alternative for those of us who feel that a front zip plus the eVENT fabric itself is not enough in the way of venting options when one is forced to wear a hardshell.

In short— we will just have to agree to disagree.

[Michael Martin]

>> “2. The fabric is too breathable. It is great for more strenuous exercise and warmer climates. Because of the breathability issues though, if it is cold and windy or if you are not being active and it is windy, it gets very cold with the jacket on.

I agree with this. My Superfly is colder than my Montane LiteSpeed.

>>

Miguel, Aaron —

I have to agree with Kevin on this one. I use both an ID eVent shell, and a Montane LiteSpeed — both superb shells fo their intended purposes. But, eVent has much lower air permeability than the Microlight fabric used in the LiteSpeed. eVent is basically impenetrable to anything short of a gale force wind. Plus, eVent is a heavier fabric and as such, flaps less in the wind, causing less “bellows effect” convective heat loss than Microlight. So, all else being equal, an eVent shell is going to be warmer than a Microlight one. (Except perhaps under high exertion where Microlight’s higher air permeability is better able to prevent moisture accumulation.)

If you are more chilled standing around in an eVent shell than a Microlight one, I would suggest that it is due to other factors. I’d look at the garment design first: assuming your insulating layer is not being compressed, snug fit = warm and loose fit = cold. I’d also look at areas where air may infiltrate — waist, neck and wrist openings, zippers, etc.

If you are more chilled standing around in an eVent shell *after* exercise than a less breathable WP/B shell, I suspect that the eVent shell is doing its job and you are experiencing evaporative heat loss from moisture accumulated in your clothing. You can’t criticize the fabric for doing its job. A less breathable shell would only retain the moisture longer and create other problems.

Cheers,

-Mike

[Summit CO]

To reiterate my comments from the first page…

“Pit zips don’t just breath moisture, they allow heat venting too.

No matter how the moisture vents, you are losing moisture. If you aren’t hot, there will be less moisture lost. Pit zips are less vulnerable to weather than your front zipper, though you may need both open when you are really working.

Pit zips can mean the difference between constantly layering up and down.”

Our exertion varies. Uphill… downhill… etc… so our heat buildup varies. I don’t want to have to take off my damned jacket to layer up or layer down when it is RAINING (or snowing) because the jacket doesn’t have suitable venting options for TEMPERATURE control beacuse the manufacturer is too proud of their MOISTURE management they didn’t think I needed TEMPERATURE control.

[Aaron Sorensen]

Whoops, after looking, I do not have a jacket with the latest iteration of Paclite. What I have is the latest iteration of polyurethane laminate

Kevin

I don’t mind agreeing to disagree.

I am just trying to get the word out there that when eVENT is used in the proper environment, it succeeds at it very well.
I also wanted people to know that it does have some down falls in other environments.

If we make huge deals over which sub 3oz jacket is the best, then until a waterproof breathable gets down to that weight, we should just keep making a big deal about our sub 10 oz jackets. It seems that know that there is a market out there, they are listening.

[Miguel Marcos]

Hi. I'm curious about eVent garments and why they remain so expensive. I imagined that, once such garments were produced in larger quantities over time the cost would decrease. However, it doesn't appear to be the case. I recently saw a nice eVent bike jacket: http://www.showerspass.com/products.asp?ManId=1206&ProductId=6&Product=Elite+2.0.

$230. I'm assuming eVent is like Gore, a proprietary fabrice and the manufacturer milks it for what it can get but it seems typical economic rules (larger production + time = lower prices) do not apply.

[Diplomatic Mike]

Normal market forces don't seem to apply with outdoor gear, Miguel. At least in the UK anyway. New model prices are still very high. The current economic problems do seem to be having an effect though. There seems to be quite a few new old stock Event shells going for around £100/$160 online here. Stores are eventually starting to realise that less profit is better than no profit.

[Patrick Caulder]

is the new paclite grey on the inside of the jacket?

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Regarding the report(s) in this tread of eVent seam tapes leaking I'd say that the company that seals the best is the one to buy from. Jason Livey's high opinion of the Canadian company Westcomb's excellence in eVent construction may point to a source of good eVent products. He has seen the factory when he was a Wesomb rep and knows the importance they have placed on seam sealing.

I know Westcomb is bit pricey but my next W/B parka will be a Westcomb eVent parka based mainly on Jason's report of the great care they take in fabrication.

[Author]

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