What temperature would you be comfortable at?

With the ultra 20 and that clothing, maybe 30 tops. And that would only be if I was properly hydrated and had a nice, fatty dinner.

For reference, I'm 5'8, around 143 lbs, and 7% body fat.

When I was 175 lbs and around 18% fat, I could have used that to 20 no problem.

looks like you should have enough r value underneath

the bivy should add a few degrees (of course the wind could quickly take that back and then some)

the Ultra 20 by most accounts I've read (I think I read the new one actually might be closer- if it's new one disregard) is really closer to a 30 degree quilt

w/ temps into the 20's no way would I leave my insulating layer behind (I might leave other things behind, but never that)- even if your going right to bed you still have to setup/break down camp, eat meal(s), might need it for sleeping and the safety margin it brings outweighs any potential weight savings imo

also w/ those temps I'd want a balaclava in addition to any beanie for sleeping in a quilt, gloves too

my .02 :)

For lows in the 20s I'de take the nanopuff

Or, be willing to get in your sleeping bag in the evening and start hiking right away in the morning

I think that would work for me down to 30. (I'm 5'8", 235, root beer belly.) I'd carry the Nano Puff.

20 is the freak low that could happen if a cold front blows in. There's a good chance it'll be in the low 40's at night.

My quilt is the old Ultra 20 and the lowest I've had it to was about 37 degrees. I was toasty and constantly had to vent in my bivy, nylon pants, a t-shirt, and a beanie (had to take it off). I would be surprised if I wasn't warm with the same setup at freezing. Sitting around outside at work without wind my head stays comfortable but not exactly warm at 25 degrees with just the beanie.

I'm 6'2" and about 210 pounds. I wear a 34-36" in the waist but still have some pudge/love handles. I'm not sure how else to explain my body fat.

I didn't include it for the exercise but I have a Polartech buff as well. It doesn't work for me as a full balaclava but worn around my neck and pulled up over my face, and with the hood on my windshirt, and the beanie I stay pretty warm.

I've found when hiking at 40 degrees in a thin t-shirt and windshirt at night I'm plenty warm and the windshirts hood stays down a lot.

I do plan on bringing wool glove liners on the trip.

I should have at least one night over Christmas to see how I do at these temperatures. I just have to wait for another cold front to come through. Any bets on whether or not I'll need the jacket? Will I be wishing for insulated pants too?

I'm on the warm scale myself :)- sleeping, hiking and lounging

I fully agree on the move you'll be fine, it's when your not on the move that the insulating piece is going to needed- even if the temps don't drop in the 20's (but keeping in mind they could) I still think you'll want/need the pullover

and yes I'd guess that some insulating piece on the bottom would be welcome as well- what I'd do is nix the cap 1 bottoms and substitute cap3/4/R1 or equivalent bottoms- only should add a couple of ounces and you'll have more suitable insulation for the bottom half

again just my .02

This is what I used last weekend. Temps were just below freezing with no wind.

From the bottom up:

Full length 1/2" Ridgerest pad
47" Prolite foam pad
GoLite Jam under my lower legs
Liner socks
Goosefeet Down Socks
Silk liner bottoms
WM Flash pants
LS Poly top
Patagonia R1 top
BPL Pro Parka
Fleece beanie

I'm 6-0 and 165.

This chart from Richard Nisley seems pretty accurate for me.

I think it depends on if you move a lot and continually pump air into a quilt.
To me that is the downside of a quilt. A bag with a zipper baffle and neck collar is a lot warmer to me but I am a side sleeper so prefer quilts.

Also if you got one of the bad ultra 20 quilts or not.
Mine seems up to snuff.

Different scenario, but I slept comfortably last year at 14dF, ultra 20, hammock, tarp in tent mode, 2 crossed CCF pads, Garlington Taco, heavy johns, one pair of heavy socks, down hat.

If you have a good ultra 20 and dont flip flop all night and in a bivy, I would say you should be good to 20dF in a tent or closed tarp. Maybe a little Less outside.

If you plan to hit 20dF or lower just make a 2.5 XP overquilt. That should extend it about 15dF and works as a summer quilt. Should weigh about 14 oz with 1 oz fabric.

Take the nano puff.

With a quilt you'd loose too much heat out the top since it won't cinch around your neck very well, unlike a mummy bag. Try to wrap your neck & shoulders with some type of insulation, at least a scarf. You'll need a down or synthetic insulating layer OVER your Patagonia long johns (which should be their heaviest long johns).

My personal system for those temps is the backpacker's goal, i. e. Multiple Use clothing. I've used my WM Megalite 30 F. bag into the low teens in Colorado's Indian Peaks area by suiting up in my Thermolite insulated jacket and pants and a wool balaclava. I slept very well and didn't need my bag's hood. When making breakfast & breaking camp I just left the jacket and pants on until time to hike. I had Cabela's heavy Thermastat polyester long johns under them, which I kept on all dsy.

Disclosure: I slept in my TarpTent Moment that has 360 degree net venting and it was very windy up there at the tree line, so it was almost the same as sleeping under a tarp.
This winter I plan to take my new Eddie Bauer down sweater instead of the Thermolite jacket. Less weight and packs smaller.

The Ultra 20 has a cinch cord in the neck area so I'm going to actually bring the straps it came with for once and strap it onto my pad and cinch it down around my neck.

I returned the Nano Puff to get a Montbell Exlite. I doubt it's going to be any warmer but it's a lot lighter. I also caught some Smartwool midweight bottoms on sale. I figured I better go ahead and order them because I may not get a chance to after my experiment.

If that isn't enough on the bottom I'm going to make a half sleeping bag liner out of some fleece to go over my legs or bring a trashbag and use it for a VBL inside my bag.

larry … chances are youll find the exl noticeably warmer

the exl and ul are more comparable to the micropuff

my exl is much warmer than my dead bird atom lt

Larry- I'd say your getting there now :) I think you'll like the ex lite, it's much warmer than a casual glance at it would indicate

Mike

It finally happened last night. The projected low was +23 F and by 8 pm everything I could check was frozen… even our RV's pipes. The humidity was 78% and the dewpoint was +27 F.

Here's what I used:
+Tigoat bivy
+2008 Golite Ultra 20 quilt
+Integral Designs siltarp (There was no wind so I pitched it lean-to style to keep the frost off.)
+Neoair Small
+Ridgrest cut to fit Neoair
+2010 Golite Jam under my legs and feet
+Cheep but thick wool socks from Wal-Mart
+Capaline 1 Bottoms
+Magellan Fishing pants
+Lightweight I/O Bio Zip Neck Merino long sleeve shirt
+Montane Windshirt (hood up)
+Montbell Exlite Jacket
+Smartwool Beanie
+Polartech Buff

I was comfy. My legs did get a little cool by daylight when it was the coldest but not cold cold. It was more like nice spring day cool.

I learned that, as other BPL'ers said, the Neoair small does work with my bivy. However next time I'm going to put the ridgerest underneath it. In the wee hours of the morning I had to turn on my back because my hip was compressing my down against the bivy to much. This was when I snapped the neck quilt around me. That helped a lot and I'm sure I lost a lot of warmth from not doing that to begin with since it took a while to get things warmed back up. This was partially remedied by deflating the Neoair a bit more and if I had felt like it I could have got up and put the Ridgerest underneath the bivy. I'll do that to begin with next time. Furthermore, had I been wearing the Smartwool bottoms I might not have had to resort to sleeping on my back. Or at least not as soon since it was my hip that was getting cold. In short (pun intended) the Neoair short works in the regular Tigoat bivy with some limitations. I also found out that I should have gone with the XL bivy because it's a little short when I'm not curled on my side (and they say the Neoair works better in it to boot). I guess I need to come up with a new bivy sometime this year to address these issues. Currently it's a bit annoying but plenty useable.

My beanie was plenty until I rolled on my back and couldn't curl up. That's when I wanted something more over my face. The buff worked decently but wasn't the most comfortable (it's a little tight on my big noggin'). It was at this point that I wished for a balaclava since I wasn't curled up like I normally sleep. A trip to academy is in store for today.

I was pleased that not being able to pull the quilt up as a hood didn't effect my sleep since my jackets collar and the beanie were touching each other. This combined with the hood on my windshirt to seal out any drafts made for good coverage on all but my face.

My bag was covered in frost on the outside near my throat and a bit damp on my torso and in the foot box so that didn't help things either. I guess that's just the 70+% humidity at work. My tarp looked like I dumped snow off of it when I brushed it off this morning.

The 2 pads worked excellent but by the time it was in the mid 20's I could feel the cold through where the neoair had slid off the ridgerest. I guess the neoair is going to work to somewhere around 30 for me.

The Jam with its foam pad kept my feet insulated well.

Last but not least, the Montbell Exlite is AMAZING. You guys were right; it's warmer than the Nanopuff. I found the Nanopuff to be lacking in the mid to high 30's. It was in the high 20's when I was setting up and with Exlite on it wasn't exactly warm but I wasn't freezing. I love this thing and will probably try to pick up a vest to match it later this year.

sounds like it was a success

I like a balaclava when quilting it in the cool weather (sometimes it's both the beanie and balaclava!)- at just under 2 oz it's a pretty useful piece of kit

yeah- the exlite is a dandy- for 6 oz (size large) it's hard to believe how warm it is :)

most flexible piece of clothing there is for the weight … as long as you keep it dry … it also dries somewhat quicker due to its thiness

pair the exl with

– windshirt/rain jacket in camp … good for anything above freezing … thats prob around 7-12 oz for yr entire top mid/outer layers
– a nano/micro puff style jacket … and youll get through anything above 20-25F easily … rainstorms, blizzards, , etc … use the synth at stops or on the move, keep the exl for camp/long stops
– a synth belay jacket … yr ready for anything short of deep winter … and yr bomber
– a midweight down jacket … decent substitute for a single winter jacket

Thirty degrees.

It was definitely a success and I was surprised my legs didn't get really cold in the Cap 1's. The Smartwool bottoms are still going to be what I take on the trip though.

I picked up a Polartech fleece balaclava at Academy today. It hasn't made it on the scales yet but I'm guessing it's just shy of 4 ounces. It's the kind with the Neoprene face area with little holes over the mouth and a larger hole under the nose. I get annoyed trying to breath through fabric so I figured that was the best I could come up with on short notice.

Eric: It's funny you should mention the Exl drying fast. I woke up around 2:30 to something wet on my face and discovered that someone had drooled all over my arm! I was a bit worried but it had dried by the next time I woke up (when my hip started getting cold). I was pretty happy about that.