4-Season: Hilleberg Akto vs the rest

I remember one day in the Pyrenees when we had sunny weather all day, except for 3 brief storms. We got really tired of the ritual – drop pack, get out jacket, put on jacket, put on pack, then 15 minutes later the reverse. That was when we switched to ponchos over the pack.

supposed to be mountain tents
Skip the marketing crap and look at the design. A pop-up with two long bendy poles and a huge flappy fabric span? Door over the groundsheet in the rain? Poor ventilation giving condensation?

Cheers

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Christoph.

Not sure why you think a scarp slow to pitch. It’s not.  Have you pitched one?

I’ve owned a Scarp 1 for 7 years. Used for many weeks in Scotland.

Also used a Terra Nova Laser for a fortnight in Scotlandand  once a borrowed an Akto. ( Which I’ve seen many many times with other users)

Just used a tarptent Moment ( my wife’s new toy) for 10 days in windy Scotland.

( We also have a Notch and SS2! – we backpack/cycle together and separately…)

I’ve seen a friend’s Enan in use too.

The Scarp, despite appearances, is the quickest of all to get a decent taut solid pitch in bad weather.

The others all need more tweaking to get a tidy pitch, and the single ended models,(Enan/Moment/laser) seem to need more precise alignment with wind direction to shed wind best and be stable. The box ended Scarp and Akto are better. ( Also more secure due to extra pegs).

The weak point of all the Tarptents construction wise is the No3 zips. All can separate under point tension in my experience, though not permanently damaged, it’s a pain to rezip. Repegging will take excess tension off the zip if it happens.

If you want simple fast, reliable pitching, with snow handling ability, I’d go for a Scarp. Of all the tents we’ve used, it’s the one we agree we feel happiest with.

But the build/material quality of Hillebergs is superior to Tarptent, but you pay for that with weight gain. ( And worse condensation due to fewer mitigating features)

My next choices for your specific usage would be Akto and then Enan. Then Moment.

For lightness and liveabilty in widest range of conditions, the Moment is a really good choice.  Extra line/big stake on the windward pitchlok is necessary in strong wind.

I think weight is the main issue for Christoph. Personally, I would really avoid the Enan – which looks much too summerish to me. The Akto, which Christoph describes as his weight limit, wouldn’t be my choice, either. Add just 230g to the Akto’s weight, and you have the very low but very stable (geodesic) Wechsel Pathfinder Zero G – including 14(!) stakes (my own, in this case, not the ones that come with the tent) and a Tyvek Footprint (my own weight figures, seam sealing included – but not the stuff sack).

So okay, I bikepack, rather than climbing or hiking. Perhaps that extra weight means a tad less to me. On the other hand, it’s all attached to my handlebars, making steering more and more sluggish with every 100g added. But if I think I need the tent, that’s a secondary concern.

Setting up the Scarp.
This is in ideal conditions, still it does set up faster than some.

The Moment is fastest in good conditions ( how could it not be with only one peg each end – Vs 3 on the Scarp).

But setting it to ride a brisk wind nicely takes longer  than the Scarp IME.  Due to it’s shape, like the Enan, Laser* etc. It’s fly tends to bow in if even slightly out of line with main wind direction. This is bearable, but not ideal, and not the best one can get with care.    The solid corners of the the Scarp give a bit of leeway, so I’ve found it is pitched stabley more quickly in the long run.

Of course, if you don’t pitch in winds regularly, this won’t be a bother.

*Incidentally. Terra Nova recommend their single hoop tents to be pitched square to the wind rather than end on as most seem to.  I tried it once with the laser in 40-50mph winds. It stood up to it, after solidly pegging the windward end of the hoop,  but rattled so hard and violently, I didn’t sleep a wink.  End on, feet to the wind, I can get some sleep.

My problem with Hillebergs: For any given (especially short) trip, you can probably find something lighter/more comfortable or (if need be) lighter and more stable than the best suited Hilleberg. There is only a very slight chance that the Hilleberg will be spot on for that particular tour, particularly weight-wise. On the other hand, you probably won’t find a better and more comfortable allrounder (for all the trips you can imagine for yourself) than a Hilleberg. But the question is: Do you really need an allrounder to handle the diversity of any adventure that is just a fortnight or so long? Are you prepared to pay the financial and weight penalties that come with such versatility?

The obvious snag is the hefty price: If I had no tents already and were to purchase an Enan, Akto or Soulo, I would probably attempt to use it as my only tent until my bank account had recovered. But whichever I chose, it would be too flimsey for some of my needs or too way heavy for others. Or even both, simultaneously. But because flimsey is more dangerous than heavy, I would most likely end up with the Soulo.

On the other hand, if you spent Soulo money on two other tents at opposite ends of your own lightness-stability scale, you would still get fine quality – and often also  tents better geared to your respective trip. Overall, you could have more bandwidth for a lower weight penalty. (An equally or more stable Soulo alternative can weigh less, at the price of some comfort. And when it’s not needed, you can probably take a tarptent boasting way, way more room and air and lightness than a Soulo could ever offer.)

I think a Hilleberg (Akto or Soulo, depending on your beefiest needs) is for uses that really require as much of that bandwidth as can be achieved with a single tent… because your project is something like a world cycling tour. In that case, you wouldn’t want to risk Himalayan death in a tarptent… but neither would you want to endure weeks of unnecessary discomfort in central France due to the low height of something like my Wechsel Pathfinder.

Even if your mind (and the minds of your loved ones) does not embrace such a concept as a tent budget with an upper limit, I think a Hilleberg will rarely be the best possible choice for any individual trip… unless that trip is a fairly long and significantly diverse one.That’s when comfort becomes such an overriding priority that it’s worth biting the weight bullet for Hilleberg versatility. Of course, the definition of ‘long’ (enough for that) is entirely subjective and personal.

But it’s worth bearing in mind that Hilleberg always seems to follow a certain route – determining the target stability/weather-proofness for a particular tent, and then adding (a lot of) features that make it more comfortable in more benevolent weather. That’s where all the weight comes from. The Enan might be the exception, having evolved in a different way. But I don’t think the Enan is strong enough for Christoph’s purposes anyway.

From Mole :
The Moment is fastest in good conditions ( how could it not be with only one peg each end – Vs 3 on the Scarp).

Yes, I was going to comment on that but by the time I posted that video I had forgotten the point.

Pitching in strong winds , the box end of the Scarp is easier (for me anyway) than setting up the Moment.

I had the wind bending the pole on my Moment whilst setting it up that hasn’t been the case with the Scarp.

Anyway for high winds I too would would suggest the Scarp and not a single end like the Moment or most other single hoop tents.

Is there any merit to using DCF in Mids vs a silnylon mid or a four-season tent? Ryan Jordan keeps pushing them and it comes across as mere sponsorship, but it seems like a discussion is warranted.

DCF has advantages like lighter weight and no sag.  And full disclosure I use a DCF Duomid but I will say I have found snow sticks to DCF more than Sil.

My two cents is, if I could only have one shelter, it would be a DCF mid. They are very versatile.  I would probably not choose one for a dedicated winter tent.

Servus Christoph! :)
Have a look at the Big Sky Chinook, might be perfect if you are not a very tall person. But even then, the 2 person Chinook is a great optioan for Winter-Solo camping.

Greetings from Lower Austria,
Max

Just a short update:

Martin suggested the Wechsel Pathfinder above. The tent is available in 3 different (weight) versions at http://www.wechsel-tents.de – Zero-G, Travel and Unlimited line. The Zero-G being the “lightest”.

Lightest in quotes because it is still around 1.5/1.6kg without stakes. However, I liked the design pretty much. It’s very stable (better than the Akto for example) and since it is discontinued (unfortunately they want to focus on the heavy duty/expedition market) it’s available for only 199 EUR – an amazing price.

So I bought one and was very impressed. The only drawback is the height, it’s not very comfortable but it makes a good 3-4 season shelter. The inner is around 70-80% solid. I think it might be a good bomb shelter for very windy weather. It can be pitched with the outer shell in place and is free-standing.

I’m still looking for a lighter, dual-wall option for the colder days with hiking poles and full solid inner – it seems as if there is only the TT Notch with partial inner though.
Not sure if I will buy a tent for deep winter yet as I want to try what I have so far first, in better weather.

I think the Pathfinder is a great tent for a shortish winter outing, but especially suited to warmer-season use in areas where high winds or mountain storms can be expected – on the nicer days, you would spend more time outside it, and the low height wouldn’t really bother you. It’s a tent that will stand up to the worst weather. I’ve never read a report of one collapsing. But whether *you* can stand being in it (stationary) for three days of such weather is another issue. On the other hand, of course, the weight is kept bearable due to the low height – lower, lighter, arguably even more stable than a Soulo.

All in all, I like Wechsel’s concept of four seasons much better than Hilleberg’s – four seasons including summer (which Hilleberg tends to forget). But the old Zero G line has been discontinued. Some tents aren’t produced in that line at all anymore, while the rest are now made of Sil/PU rather than pure silnylon. One 2016 Zero G that is worth a look is the Forum 42 – between the Hilleberg Allak and the Hilleberg Staika, both functionally and weightwise (but again, with more provisions for hot weather). Price is € 650, but tremendous deals are currently available.

I just saw the following picture of a Tarptent Saddle 2: https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/new-from-tarptent/page/4/#post-3499772

It uses the same fabrics as the Notch – which makes me doubt the notch is the right choice for a lightweight 3+ season, pole supported tent.

I doubt very much that if a Notch is correctly set up (that is put in tension once the fabric has cooled down , not mid afternoon) it could sink like that.

This is mine with iced  snow on it :

it is with the previous fabric but silnylon does not stretch 20cm on a 1 meter span…

The Wechsel Pathfinder was also sold as WE Dart 1 but that has also been discontinued.

I don’t think older Notches are using the same new stretchy material as the Saddle 2. The new ones definitely are, though.

Apparently the fabric changed – so it might be different now. But that’s just a guess.
I will follow that thraed, but will also try to find possible alternatives.

Any thoughts on this one? https://www.wechsel-tents.de/en/tents/zerog-exogen-1-231048/ Wechsel Exogen 1.

To me, it looks like a pop-up. You have to erect the inner first with poorly connected poles, then throw the fly over. Have fun doing that in a storm. Then you hope it stays up.

Cheers

“WINTERIZED” MOMENT DW:

Check out “The Tarptent Thread”. The first post is my Moment DW (W/ripstop inner) with the optional crossing pole shortened 6 inches and run under the fly for greater stability in high winds and heavy snow. Plus this makes the tent freestanding if needed, say if you are forced to camp on a large flat rock.

I do have a SCARP 2 that is also “winterized” in the same manner but for a solo 4 season tent I feel the Moment DW is hard to beat. The Scarp 1 OR 2 requires two X-ing poles such is more weight than the one X-ing pole for the Moment DW. Also the Akto can’t utilize any crossing pole as the Moment DW does.