3F UL Gear 2021 Lanshan 1 now longer/wider…look out western competitors
Jan 6, 2021 at 3:31 pm #3692436
I wrote on a thread here back in May that if 3F UL Gear started making their tents longer to accommodate taller caucasian backpackers, they’d be the titans of the world ultralight shelter market. Looks like they read my posts. Shout out to the savvy people over at treklite.com.uk for making me aware of the latest developments from 3F.
The price and quality combination of the 3F shelters is I dare say unbeatable. And the stealthy brown color just looks supreme. Dimensions diagram at 1:23 of video.Jan 6, 2021 at 3:53 pm #3692440Rex SandersBPL Member
187 cm is almost 6’2” tall.
Now add a 2.5 inch to 3 inch pad underneath, plus a few more inches of quilt/bag loft above, and it doesn’t look that roomy.
Also, no indication that headroom/shoulder room improved.
Will the larger 2021 model fit more people? Yes.
Big enough for 74 inch me? No.
Hope the 2021 model dimensions make it into fitmytent.com to help others decide.
— RexJan 6, 2021 at 8:17 pm #3692494Jacob ZBPL Member
Ya man … I wish pad thickness was included in all tent specs … as a newb to lightweight backpacking .. it would have saved me a lot of dough …Jan 7, 2021 at 4:16 am #3692511
I’d say a 7.5′ inner is pretty long by industry standards. Of course the fly comes close to your face like it does on all mids. Remember the average American male is 5′ 9 1/2″ tall. Dutch and Scandinavians are taller though for sure.Jan 7, 2021 at 4:00 pm #3692598
Looks like a nice revision. A 7.5′ inner is on the longer side of things but most tents don’t have that much inward slope on the ends. I think 6’2″ would be pushing it if that person was on a pad and in a sleeping bag but certainly much more reasonable than the prior version. Of course the weight is up too. Now 33oz + seam seal. Used to be ~29oz as I recall.Jan 7, 2021 at 6:56 pm #3692632Todd TBPL Member
@texasbbLocale: Pacific Northwest
Remember the average American male is 5′ 9 1/2″ tall. Dutch and Scandinavians are taller though for sure.
…as are about 47.3% of American men.
I wish tent makers would offer tall versions of their tents. (I don’t expect them to, but I wish!) Yes, we’d buy them. Yes, we’d pay more for them. Just like we do for sleeping bags and clothes and stuff. </whine>Jan 8, 2021 at 7:19 am #3692688Brad PBPL Member
Sorry to go off topic, but related. Another frustrating thing for taller people are hiking pants manufacturers that assume all tall people are fat. The only way to get a long inseam is to get giant waist sizes.
I do understand it often doesn’t make financial sense for some manufacturers to cater outside the average range. That’s for tents, clothes and everything.Jan 8, 2021 at 12:55 pm #3692734Todd TBPL Member
@texasbbLocale: Pacific Northwest
Another frustrating thing for taller people are hiking pants manufacturers that assume all tall people are fat.
They’re serious when they name their stores “Big and Tall.”
Jan 8, 2021 at 2:28 pm #3692758David USpectator
I don’t think Durston, Tarptent, or MLD have anything to worry about.Jan 8, 2021 at 3:26 pm #3692769
Obviously 3F is targeting the more budget conscious masses out there, which happens to be the larger part of the world market. I could see them cutting into mainstream companies like Big Agnes, Six Moon Designs, Gossamer Gear, Nemo, MSR, etc (all China made). Wouldn’t surprise me to see an X-Mid copy for about $135 come out of Asia soon. 3F Gear and the Lanshans are probably more of a challenge to SMD. Keep in mind that the US and Canada is only about 5% of the world population. And I know Western Europe is down with US made ultralight backpacking gear. but there’s many millions out there who would rather spend $150 for a quality double-walled 1P tent than $300 to $400. 3F of course cuts out the retailers’ markup.
I totally agree Dan U. Companies like the ones you mentioned have their medium to higher priced markets well established with a loyal following.Jan 16, 2021 at 3:13 pm #3694155
I think the companies with the most to fear are the ones tied to retail channels. Mainstream companies like MSR, Big Agnes etc can’t abandon retail since it forms the majority of their sales, so they are stuck with retail markup in their price even for the portion of sales that in online since they can’t undercut their retailers. Hard to convince a customer to pay 50% more when that money is going towards markup and not a higher end product.
Some companies sell online but don’t produce at scale (e.g. smaller shops like MLD, Yama, Seek Outside etc) where they also don’t have a price advantage over mainstream companies but at least you’re paying for handbuilt rather than markup. Enough people are into that to support those companies.
By far the most efficient businesses are the ones that sell primarily online AND produce at scale. That’s myself (Durston), TarpTent, Gossamer Gear, 3F UL, SMD etc. Some of these companies still price in line with mainstream companies and enjoy the lofty margins (at least for the time being), but most pass that cost savings on to the customer since it yields increased sales and in the longer run increased competition will trim the margins.
We might see a $135 X-Mid knock off come out of Asia but I’m not particularly worried about it because we already have a very efficient business model and pass the savings onto the customer, so there is no way to substantially undercut the $220 X-Mid 1P price other than cheapening the product. Sure someone could produce a $135 version, but it wouldn’t come out of a top tier factory. It would probably mean giving up double stitching, properly finished edges, seam taping, double coated fabrics, premium hardware etc and accepting basic construction methods and materials. Certainly some people would be into that but a lot of people would pay an extra $85 for much higher quality and a proven product. If we were marking it up 200% like a few companies are then I’d be a lot more worried about getting undercut.
Basically selling direct is a good way to lower prices but cheapening the product isn’t nearly as attractive to customers. We’ll continue to see an increase in online sales, but I don’t think a major shift from higher quality to lower quality.Jan 17, 2021 at 2:54 am #3694195
I believe you’re right Dan. At $220 the X-Mid is still priced low enough to where most buyers will choose the genuine article. SMD however does wholesale to retailers like ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk, backcountrygear.com and an online store in Slovakia just to name a few. Heck, at backcountrygear their recurring 20% off coupon applies to SMD products, thereby making them cheaper than on SMD’s site itself (except for Black Friday through Christmas). So if backcountrygear can sell a Lunar Solo as low as $184 you know that wholesale is probably around $125 or less! Shows how economically Ron is getting them cranked out in China.Jan 17, 2021 at 9:17 pm #3694314
Yeah SMD is a bit different since they do sell at retail a bit. They could be selling to retailers at hardly at a profit just for the exposure and really profiting online, but probably their costs are low enough to make some money via retail. That make sense when you compare the product. A $220 X-Mid is double wall, double door, seam taped, double folded edges, double vent, double stitched, premium hardware etc, whereas a $230 Lunar Solo doesn’t have any of that, so it appears that it can be produced much more affordably. That enables more markup to sell at retail but also gives 3F UL a chance to undercut. SMDs business model may work for them, or they may need to back away from retail and move lower in price. They’re not as dependant on retail as the big companies, so at least the have the ability to adjust their business model.
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