Cold Weather Clothing

good article

is he saying in the last diagram that if you're really hot and sweating- then the gore (or gore-like) starts working?

heat will push out moisture … which is why the worse way to dry yr damp clothes is to just sit around in winter … the moisture will stay in yr layers and freeze … and you could end up hypothermic

do some light activity like walk around, set up a tent, play with a bear ….

or simulate the effect by using a hot nalgene …

bear thing doesnt work they run off before you can play with them long enough to dry out your clothes.

Wonder if they tried eVent? I'd put monty that they would get FAR less condensation (if any) with eVent instead of Gore-Tex.

the paper was written in 2003 … i suspect that breathability has improved substantially since then … but the concept still holds true … event may be a different beast, who knows … however some of the proprietary fabrics being used as WPB membranes on down jackets are known to be less than impressive

the most important part is actually something i didnt paste …. IMO the below is the difference between a dangerous situation and a good fun winter trip …

while event breathes better than Gore- in the winter (cold winter) the need for a waterproof garment is much diminished- a windshirt (windjacket) w/ a good DWR finish is probably a better choice- breathes much better than event or gore, block the wind as good (or better) and w/ a good DWR finish should take care of any external moisture issues

I've been using a gore outer for hunting big game and this year we had a particularly cold fall- I needed the wind protection, but with heavy exertion the gore wouldn't breath well enough, wetting the inside

next year I'm nixing the gore and will use a windshirt (a little heavier denier than my Houdini which I use backpacking) instead

"a windshirt (windjacket) w/ a good DWR finish is probably a better choice- breathes much better than event or gore"

I'd agree that a windshirt is probably a better choice if properly chosen. Some windshirts, including my Montbell Ultralight, use nylon that has been calendared, which renders them very windproof but also not very breathable. If you choose a windshirt whose fabric does not use use this process, a windshirt would be the better choice for sure for below freezing temps, IMO.

The second part of the article is excellent and is what I've been saying for many years!

Slight variant in Pacific Northwest winters–often it's raining or mixed rain/snow/freezing rain even at higher altitudes, with the thermometer on the cusp of freezing. The rain jacket is essential here–making it even more important not to get sweaty underneath it, because everything outside is wet, too, and nothing is going either to dry or to freeze hard enough to brush off ice crystals!

Mary- those do sound like terrible conditions, maybe I need to quit bitching when it's -10 :)

consider not wearing the windshirt unless its windy or snowing … i think too many people wear it just for the sake of wearing it

a light breeze is not a bad thing if you're active, as long as the frostbite areas (ears, hands, nose, etc …) are protected … it helps control the sweat … when yr stopped yr going to put on windproof insulation anyways

a windshirt is really for wind, snow repellency, and when you need warmth

like Tom, i find some wind shirts to be not very breathable at all

i always take an rain jacket up here … winter here means rain, slush and snow … and in a heavy snowstorm, a windshirt dwr may not be enough

I'd rather have what we have than 30 below! There's also the consideration that around town we have to shovel snow only every 2-3 years–most of the time it melts before we can get the shovel out!

Once it gets cold enough, just forget WPB fabrics. Years ago we used highly breathable 60/40 jackets for Adirondack winter hiking/skiing/backpacking (60% nylon, 40% cotton…yes, cotton!). They worked great as long as the temperature was below maybe 25 degrees F. I was taught to always be comfortably cool, and never had any condensation problems.

I've read of Maine winter hikers who wear windproof Egyptian cotton outer shells in the really cold weather (below perhaps 10 degrees F).

I generally find GoreTex uncomfortable, sort of like I'm in a mini steam bath.

For seriously cold weather take a look at Wintergreen clothing.
No Gore Tex nor eVent there…
http://www.wintergreennorthernwear.com/
Franco

The Wintergreen Northernwear shells are basically heavy-duty windshells – nylon with DWR. They certainly should breathe better than a membrane or coated fabric.

I've used Paramo shells in winter for many years now, in temperatures down to -35C, and found them very breathable and comfortable.

"i always take an rain jacket up here … winter here means rain, slush and snow … and in a heavy snowstorm, a windshirt dwr may not be enough"

+1 I don't even bother with a windshirt up here on day hikes anymore. At rest stops it's on with my Event shell, and an insulating layer if needed. Otherwise, I'll hike with my R1 Hoody as a base layer, over a Cap 1 LS crew if it's really cold, and a MH Transition Featherweight Windstopper Vest if it's also windy. The ID Event jacket serves as a windshirt, or as rain gear if it's a liquid sunshine kind of day.

As Eric mentioned, take care of your head and hands, and hike on the cool side.

Its heavier but I think very effective- at least for the weather I've been in so far- but I swear by light softshells instead of hardshells.

I go merino SS/ merino arm warmers, thin montbell Climalight vest and the OR Contour pullover- I can comfortably hike in that to about 35deg as I did on Hood in Sept.

At rest I'll use my OR Frostline. At camp I'll add MB UL Inner and just got Marmot Baffin vest to play with.

But that's a lot of layers and after reading that chart and stuff it looks like because of all of those layers I'll be condensing in my clothes and gettin wet. Maybe sub out a thick jkt for camp

a lot of layers aint bad if it works for you

chances are the moisture will go to the last layer …. which means its doing its job … pushing the moisture out of yr inners

the downside about having a lot of layers is
– having to start and stop to take them off
– each time you take them on/off you risk getting snow on them
– it weights more

in a backpacking situation where you can stop anyways, it shouldnt matter … in a climbing or other situation, you cant always stop

i use light softshells … the thing you have to watch out for is you really dont want to overwhelm them with moisture … with a windshirt the sweat will end up as liquid on the inside of the shell … you can just take it off and wipe it down

with a softshell, itll get absorbed into the fabric and could have a chilling effect … needless to say the softshell should be as quick drying as possible .

Thats why I have the arm warmers, I can pull them off to vent while I'm hiking. I'm waiting for them to restock on a 3/4 zip SS shirt so I can totally vent.

But I'll stop to vent in a second. its like blisters- the longer you wait…

in rain when its kinda cold and I'm hiking I can wear just the merino SS and the Contour. its got a 1/2 zip.

I'll have zippers on every layer when I get that jersey LOL.

Yeah if the Contour wets out I still have the Endurance on the Frostline

Oh yeah- I just got some Marmot wrist gaiters just to mess around- we'll see if they serve much of a purpose