950+ Down @ Nunatak announcement

Is 950+ even feasible? Possible? I don't even think it exists.

i've always heard it was marketing department fiction, but who knows – anything is possible except dinosaurs.

"anything is possible except dinosaurs"

Well, the BPL PM and forum systems flat out proves that wrong…..

"anything is possible except dinosaurs."

Wait, are you telling me Jurassic Park is fake!! :-)

No, I think what he is saying is that many Dinosaurs had feathers.

It does not seem so unfeasible to me and I commend Nunatak for raising the bar. They don't seem to me to be a company that would make the statement frivolously.

It could simply be a matter of cherry-picking the best batches of the best 875+ fill by meticulously testing and sorting. Remember, the 875+ is a minimum average fill power. Or perhaps, genetically modified geese (God forbid), or some other special breed, like Valandre claims.

Quick…. grab my graduated cylinder!!!

You just feed the geese a special diet. Three espressos a day should do it.

Man we really get carried away with STUFF myself included;) and i try so hard to not like stuff lol!!

"You just feed the geese a special diet. Three espressos a day should do it."

Or a feed tham a load of BS, apparently.

Luxurylite says its possible. Though this article talks about the detriments of using down fill of this quality, it still seems to indicate that this fill quality does in fact exist.
http://www.luxurylite.com/fillweight.html

900 seemed impossible until we started seeing it in gear.
e.g. Patagonia special edition sweater, Eddie Bauer Special edition downlite, The down sold by thru-hiker, quilts and down gear made by BPL members, etc

David, why so hostile? any particular reason why it can't exist?

Hostile? Really? I simply choose not to believe the marketing spin.

Would you rather follow blindly or question the seemingly impossible?

What I want is the test results posted so I can then believe it.

"Or a feed tham a load of BS, apparently."

my bad! Choice of words threw me off

I def question as well, but with a seemingly more open/optimistic mindset…maybe i'm just gullible :/

Yes – I was just joking with the comment.

(trust me – I want it to be true. Fewer feathers is goooood).

agreed–coupled with this new lightweight momentum that Ron is pimping, we are talking revolution-potential here

Yes…sadly I do measure innovation by grams :D

Ryan Jordan
( ryan – BPL STAFF – M)

Locale:
Greater Yellowstone

NEW Re: Re: Re: Introduction to Outdoor Retailer Summer Market 2008 on 08/10/2008 08:04:56 MDT

Bill et al.,

I spoke at length with IDFL yesterday about down testing.

None of their tests stimulate real world testing. 900 fp in a test is going to be a pipe dream in the field, because they steam wash and dry the down to nearly zero humidity before doing the test. Ironically, this most recent iteration of test methods was designed to determine the maximum possible fill power for down rather than what it will look like in the field.

Interestingly as a side note, we did some 900 fp testing of down a few years ago on two manufacturer's 900 bags. We cut the bags open and sent them to IDFL. Neither made the claimed 900 spec (they tested 830-870 using the steam method). What was more dramatic was that when each down (which clearly came from different sources as evidenced by visual inspection) was subjected to 50% humidity, the differences were pretty dramatic. One bag tested at 770 fp, the other at 680 fp. It seems that at least these two sources of 900 down had feathers in it that were not resilient in response to humidity.

The kicker is that we ran the same test next to down taken from a manufacturer's 750 fp bag. at 50% humidity, the fp was 720. Why? It had more feathers that were stiff enough to preserve the loft in moist conditions.

dont say that H word on BPL …. its a fictional word invented by all those primaloft bums ;)

950 down? … isnt there a standard euro test for down? … EN 12934 or some other rule ….

darn euros … cant they just get with the marketing

Thanks Richard. This confirms my thoughts. although I wasn't aware of the practicality of such a high rated down even if it did exist.

Thanks Richard, Those findings are in line with the luxurylite article as well. Funny how there was recent discussion about how most gear today has >10% feather fill…didn't realize that this may actually be of benefit.

This is going OT a bit… But I can't help wondering if a superior insulation might be made by combining down and some sort of artificial feather? Some sort of plastic device which retains shape more durably than a feather.

Bring on the 1500 fill down!

Sure, humidity has a tremendous affect on down. Case in point:

If I stick my pair of Goose-feet down socks in the dryer, on 120 degree F heat (+/-) for about 10 minutes, they come out looking like they are so stuffed full of down that they could not possibly hold any more. They appear to have nearly doubled their loft and look more like balloons. Weighing them also shows that they are approximately 7% lighter than at ambient temperature/humidity levels (I do live in the PNW).

The idea that in real world circumstances, higher fill power does not directly equate to better performance is an interesting topic that has come up more than once recently here now. I also find it worth noting that the weight increase of the down due to ambient air humidity changes is indeed measurable and significant.

I consider that great news. The gear companies get to sell a premium product to those who just have to have the "best" and I'll buy the "old" technology at half price.