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950+ Down @ Nunatak announcement


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  • #1266125
    . .
    BPL Member

    @biointegra

    Locale: Puget Sound

    From Nunatak's website:

    "Good news for those seeking the best possible down gear from us here at Nunatak.

    We are pleased to announce a limited edition of 950+ white goose down for our gear this season. While our stock fill of 875+ is superior in every way, this is an extra high end boost for no additional weight. Now our jackets are warmer and more compressible than ever!

    Cost is nominal, add $8.00 for every ounce of down being replaced in a down jacket or quilt. Overfill is 20$ per ounce. This means our Skaha down sweater, size xl with 5 ounces of fill, will cost an extra 40.00."

    #1669818
    David Ure
    Member

    @familyguy

    Is 950+ even feasible? Possible? I don't even think it exists.

    #1669823
    Richard Fischel
    BPL Member

    @ricko

    i've always heard it was marketing department fiction, but who knows – anything is possible except dinosaurs.

    #1669825
    rubmybelly!
    BPL Member

    @sleeping

    Locale: The Cascades

    "anything is possible except dinosaurs"

    Well, the BPL PM and forum systems flat out proves that wrong…..

    #1669826
    Turley
    BPL Member

    @turley

    Locale: So Cal

    "anything is possible except dinosaurs."

    Wait, are you telling me Jurassic Park is fake!! :-)

    #1669827
    David Ure
    Member

    @familyguy

    No, I think what he is saying is that many Dinosaurs had feathers.

    #1669832
    . .
    BPL Member

    @biointegra

    Locale: Puget Sound

    It does not seem so unfeasible to me and I commend Nunatak for raising the bar. They don't seem to me to be a company that would make the statement frivolously.

    It could simply be a matter of cherry-picking the best batches of the best 875+ fill by meticulously testing and sorting. Remember, the 875+ is a minimum average fill power. Or perhaps, genetically modified geese (God forbid), or some other special breed, like Valandre claims.

    #1669877
    Steve O
    Member

    @hechoendetroit

    Locale: South Kak

    Quick…. grab my graduated cylinder!!!

    #1669902
    kevperro .
    BPL Member

    @kevperro

    Locale: Washington State

    You just feed the geese a special diet. Three espressos a day should do it.

    #1669905
    patrick walsh
    Member

    @apbt1976

    Man we really get carried away with STUFF myself included;) and i try so hard to not like stuff lol!!

    #1669939
    David Ure
    Member

    @familyguy

    "You just feed the geese a special diet. Three espressos a day should do it."

    Or a feed tham a load of BS, apparently.

    #1669947
    Konrad .
    BPL Member

    @konrad1013

    Luxurylite says its possible. Though this article talks about the detriments of using down fill of this quality, it still seems to indicate that this fill quality does in fact exist.
    http://www.luxurylite.com/fillweight.html

    900 seemed impossible until we started seeing it in gear.
    e.g. Patagonia special edition sweater, Eddie Bauer Special edition downlite, The down sold by thru-hiker, quilts and down gear made by BPL members, etc

    David, why so hostile? any particular reason why it can't exist?

    #1669951
    David Ure
    Member

    @familyguy

    Hostile? Really? I simply choose not to believe the marketing spin.

    Would you rather follow blindly or question the seemingly impossible?

    What I want is the test results posted so I can then believe it.

    #1669954
    Konrad .
    BPL Member

    @konrad1013

    "Or a feed tham a load of BS, apparently."

    my bad! Choice of words threw me off

    I def question as well, but with a seemingly more open/optimistic mindset…maybe i'm just gullible :/

    #1669956
    David Ure
    Member

    @familyguy

    Yes – I was just joking with the comment.

    (trust me – I want it to be true. Fewer feathers is goooood).

    #1669957
    Konrad .
    BPL Member

    @konrad1013

    agreed–coupled with this new lightweight momentum that Ron is pimping, we are talking revolution-potential here

    Yes…sadly I do measure innovation by grams :D

    #1669992
    Richard Nisley
    BPL Member

    @richard295

    Locale: San Francisco Bay Area

    Ryan Jordan
    ( ryan – BPL STAFF – M)

    Locale:
    Greater Yellowstone

    NEW Re: Re: Re: Introduction to Outdoor Retailer Summer Market 2008 on 08/10/2008 08:04:56 MDT

    Bill et al.,

    I spoke at length with IDFL yesterday about down testing.

    None of their tests stimulate real world testing. 900 fp in a test is going to be a pipe dream in the field, because they steam wash and dry the down to nearly zero humidity before doing the test. Ironically, this most recent iteration of test methods was designed to determine the maximum possible fill power for down rather than what it will look like in the field.

    Interestingly as a side note, we did some 900 fp testing of down a few years ago on two manufacturer's 900 bags. We cut the bags open and sent them to IDFL. Neither made the claimed 900 spec (they tested 830-870 using the steam method). What was more dramatic was that when each down (which clearly came from different sources as evidenced by visual inspection) was subjected to 50% humidity, the differences were pretty dramatic. One bag tested at 770 fp, the other at 680 fp. It seems that at least these two sources of 900 down had feathers in it that were not resilient in response to humidity.

    The kicker is that we ran the same test next to down taken from a manufacturer's 750 fp bag. at 50% humidity, the fp was 720. Why? It had more feathers that were stiff enough to preserve the loft in moist conditions.

    #1669996
    James holden
    BPL Member

    @bearbreeder-2

    dont say that H word on BPL …. its a fictional word invented by all those primaloft bums ;)

    950 down? … isnt there a standard euro test for down? … EN 12934 or some other rule ….

    darn euros … cant they just get with the marketing

    #1670092
    David Ure
    Member

    @familyguy

    Thanks Richard. This confirms my thoughts. although I wasn't aware of the practicality of such a high rated down even if it did exist.

    #1670157
    Konrad .
    BPL Member

    @konrad1013

    Thanks Richard, Those findings are in line with the luxurylite article as well. Funny how there was recent discussion about how most gear today has >10% feather fill…didn't realize that this may actually be of benefit.

    #1670177
    Aaron Reichow
    Member

    @areichow

    Locale: Northern Minnesota

    This is going OT a bit… But I can't help wondering if a superior insulation might be made by combining down and some sort of artificial feather? Some sort of plastic device which retains shape more durably than a feather.

    Bring on the 1500 fill down!

    #1670207
    . .
    BPL Member

    @biointegra

    Locale: Puget Sound

    Sure, humidity has a tremendous affect on down. Case in point:

    If I stick my pair of Goose-feet down socks in the dryer, on 120 degree F heat (+/-) for about 10 minutes, they come out looking like they are so stuffed full of down that they could not possibly hold any more. They appear to have nearly doubled their loft and look more like balloons. Weighing them also shows that they are approximately 7% lighter than at ambient temperature/humidity levels (I do live in the PNW).

    The idea that in real world circumstances, higher fill power does not directly equate to better performance is an interesting topic that has come up more than once recently here now. I also find it worth noting that the weight increase of the down due to ambient air humidity changes is indeed measurable and significant.

    #1670448
    kevperro .
    BPL Member

    @kevperro

    Locale: Washington State

    I consider that great news. The gear companies get to sell a premium product to those who just have to have the "best" and I'll buy the "old" technology at half price.

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