Dec 1, 2010 at 12:22 pm #1266124
So thru-hiker.com just unveiled a new fabric: Momentum 50!
From their site:
"Momentum 50 Specs
Base Weight: 0.5 oz/yd2
Finished Weight: 0.7 oz yd2 (24g/m2)
Finish: Teflon DWR
Years in the making, we're thrilled to offer the immediate availability Momentum 50, the lightest downproof fabric available today at a remarkable finished weight of just 0.7 oz/yd2 (24g/m2).
Momentum 50 will be in extremely short supply until the spring when our full color lots start arriving. In order to maximize availability roll good orders will be limited to no more than five yards per household. Avoid disappointment by getting some yardage now while it's in stock!"
It's pricey at $22/yd but you have to give the guys credit for keeping pace with the big brands and providing leading edge materials for the DIY crowd.Dec 1, 2010 at 12:27 pm #1669815Dec 1, 2010 at 12:58 pm #1669829
Got 5 yards on the way…stay tuned for worlds lightest bivy :)Dec 1, 2010 at 1:12 pm #1669837
@biointegraLocale: Puget Sound
Honestly, the first thing I thought when I saw the announcement, was:
"Steve is going to make a new bivy."Dec 1, 2010 at 1:14 pm #1669839
Now if Cubic Tech would get their act together and give us the breathable cuben that they have been threatening, we would have ourselves a horse race! Can't wait to see what the cottage manufacturers do with this! Great work Paul and Ron!Dec 1, 2010 at 1:31 pm #1669846
Pricey… but I could make a really light down summer quilt with that stuff… hmm.
…I just couldn't do it. I ordered some down for something else I am doing, but I felt like that was a lot of dough for 5 yards of orange nylon. I hope that when the colors arrive (black) and there is more of it… the price might come down. Pretty please ;)Dec 1, 2010 at 2:08 pm #1669867
SO much monies!
I can dream!Dec 1, 2010 at 4:13 pm #1669920
Honestly, the first thing I thought when I saw the announcement, was:
"Steve is going to make a new bivy."
You know me too well…;)Dec 2, 2010 at 10:57 am #1670155
I hope AYCE is getting this stuff in a dark green or some similar forest color. The lightest fabric I've found that matches OD cuben fiber is 30 d ripstop nylon.Dec 2, 2010 at 11:38 am #1670163
Can someone tell me what the difference between Momentum 50 and Nylite is?
Other than price and availble colors?Dec 2, 2010 at 11:45 am #1670165
@jephotoLocale: New Zealand
Too light for a windshirt?Dec 2, 2010 at 12:34 pm #1670169
Marc, the Nylite is a zero-porosity fabric.Dec 3, 2010 at 7:20 pm #1670651
@ckrusorLocale: Northwest US
I ordered some Nylite and found that it weighed about 1.1 oz/yard. All kite and spinnaker fabrics are this way. It isn't because the weights are expressed in sailmaker's yards, and it isn't because the base fabric is actually 0.5 oz and the coating drives up the weight. The base fabric is probably 0.9 oz/yard.
"0.5oz" is just a category name meaning "very light." No "0.5 oz" kite or sail fabric weighs less than twice that much. I bought a "0.5 oz" kite fabric that weighed 1.8 oz/yard about a year ago.
Thru-hiker and MLD are very conscientious companies, and it's a testament to their scruples that they provide accurate fabric weights to their customers. You won't get that anywhere else.Dec 4, 2010 at 4:41 pm #1670859
@mad777Locale: South Florida
I'm sure this stuff is nice, but it is currently way too expensive for me to justify using it.Dec 4, 2010 at 5:19 pm #1670873
@biointegraLocale: Puget Sound
Ben made some Goosefeet with it and saved almost half an ounce:
It's a nice, warm color too.Dec 10, 2010 at 7:44 pm #1673088
Does anyone have any M50 MYOG projects finished yet? Thru-hiker.com posted their quilt kit with 5 yards M50, 12 oz of 900 fp down as well as 2 yards of nanoseeum netting (baffle material) for $199. This kit would cost about $240+ if everything was purchased separately, and apparently supplies are very limited. I couldn't resist, and pulled the trigger a couple days ago. I'm envisioning a 15-16 oz top bag with 8-9 oz of very high quality down to use for most spring/fall trips, with a few ounces of down left over for other MYOG projects.
I've made a down quilt (then turned into a topbag) before, but any advice for working with this material would be most appreciated. If I don't get any feedback, I'll try to post my thoughts after I've made some progress.
MattDec 11, 2010 at 5:06 am #1673157
Matt, You just had to post this. I've resisted the urge to get this fabric until I saw your post. I pulled the trigger and got a M50 quilt kit. What I am hoping is that machine setup will be similar to momentum 90, but like you would like to hear from anyone who was sewn it. Any issues?
The tough part is what to do with it. Just like you I had been laying out the plans to build a summer quilt. Also like you I was going to use some down on quilt and save some for other projects.
My summer quilt plan is 72" long with a 1/2 taper: 50 wide on top half, then taper to 38" at footbox. I was going to go with sewn through baffles and use 6 oz of down. I should get about 1.5 inches of loft. I would use a draw cord + velcro footbox. The finished weight would be 11-12 oz.
Redo my 3 season quilt, I can get it to just 18 oz. It would save about 2-2.5 oz. For a quilt I could stretch into the teens this would be pretty good. This quilt would be 78" long same widths. Increase baffle height from 2.0 to 2.5" loft to 3"+. I'm guessing this quilt could take me to 5-10 degrees with extra clothes worn.
Stick with summer quilt but add 1" baffles, use same 6 oz of down. Are the baffles worth the effort?
Build a lighter 3 season quilt. Go with 72" length, use 8 oz down, and 1.75" baffles. I estimate this quilt would loft to ~2" and would be good to 30 degrees. The quilt would weigh about 13.5 oz.
So many decisions that I did not have to make before I arose on this fine morning.
JamieDec 11, 2010 at 9:18 am #1673185
I ordered 5 yards and just got it a couple of days ago. I have barely played with it as of yet, but to me, the fabric feels very strong – much more than I had anticipated…do I hear a request for M30? :)
It differ from M90 in that it appears and feels more slippery (almost like silnylon). It is tough to distinguish between the shiny and dull surface, but the light is pretty dull in my office so maybe it is easier to see the difference with better illumination.
With M90, the fabric gets a bit "staticy" and almost holds itself together which makes sewing a bit easier. I am not sure if this will do the same. Maybe Ben from goosefeet could chime in…anyway, that's my first impression.Dec 11, 2010 at 9:55 am #1673199
Jamie – glad you decided to share my MYOG impulsiveness! M50 is very expensive, and perhaps the price will come down a bit this spring. The thing is, I live in Minnesota and even though I do some winter trips and a lot of cross country skiing, it is dark and cold outside and definitely prime gear making season. I elected not to wait until April, May or later to get a jump on this project. I've been making enough of my own gear that I'm now able to sell off some comercial/cottage made gear I previously used to fund new projects.
I made an M90 quilt from Thru-hikers kit last year, and used the full 12 oz of down. I later converted this to a top bag, which I prefer, with a ~30 inch zip and an extra single later strip of momentum on bottom for a minimal weight penalty and better draft protection. The final product is a little less than 22 oz and has plenty of room to spare for my 6' frame. Along with adequate CCF pads and a Whitney down parka (six oz of down, 13.5 ounces total), I've taken this down to 14 degrees F and been comfortable. Basically, when combined with some other clothing I can count on this set-up for lows in the teens. For cold but not frigid temps I think the combo of a warm but light parka with a top bag or quilt is pretty tough to beat weight- and function- wise.
Making a similar top-bag with 8 ounces of down and M50 and also making a cocoon-style hooded synthetic parka might leave me with my ideal set-up for most conditions with lows about 30F:
Night time lows in teens or twenties: M90 topbag (22 oz) + Whitney Parka (13.5 oz) = 35.5 ounces.
Lows in thirties or more: M50 top bag (15 oz) + synthetic parka (8.5 oz?) = 23.5 ounces.
Part of me thinks I should stop being such a geek and just use the set-up I already have:) One reason I'm not is that my fiance comes with on most trips and she would love to inherit my original (warmer) top bag when I'm not using it.
So anyway, thats my thought process regarding how to use the kit I ordered. I'm excited to see what everyone is able to do now that lighter fabrics are available. Also, time will tell just how M50 performs compared with time tested fabrics like M90.
If it were me, I'd say a quilt with 6 oz of down could be sewn through, but if you are going to try to make a light 3-season quilt with 8+ ounces of down go with baffles: it seems you go very light and push your insulation to relatively cold temps and those baffles would be appreciated when the temps drop a little lower than expected. The ability to completely customize projects like this and make exactly what you want (for a fraction of what you'd pay from a cottage shop) is my favorite thing about MYOG.
Keep us posted (as you always do!).
MattDec 11, 2010 at 3:59 pm #1673315
Matt, Your post made me go search for a thread showing your Whitney. I didn't recall ever seeing it. I must say it is an incredible looking piece of gear. I have been thinking about a down sweater starting from the Whitney. After seeing what you did I might just put it next on my list.
I look forward to comparing quilts.
JamieDec 12, 2010 at 10:03 am #1673514
Jamie, go for the baffles. M90 quilt with 1 1/4 inch baffles. 6 ounces of down. Final weight 11.99 ounces. I am adding another 1.5 ounces of 900 down to the upper 1/2 of the bag to chub up the slightly underfilled baffles. New weight will be 13.5 ounces and it should easily be good to 30 and maybe a lil' under with my 1 3/4 ounce Katabatic down hood and a UL down inner. I say try baffles.Dec 12, 2010 at 12:58 pm #1673569
Sewing M50 is very similar to sewing silnylon, as it doesn't have much static attraction, and is pretty slippery. M90 is definitely much easier to work with.Dec 12, 2010 at 2:29 pm #1673598
Alexander, Looks like you have onw smart sleeping system. I'm curious about the dimensions on your quilt. Any chance you have the top width (chest/neck) and footbox girth (bottom width). I'd like to know the length and if it is a sewn together footboox or drawcord formed footbox.
Until I read your post I had about decided to go with a sewn through quilt but increase the length back to 78". Now I'm really undecided. It does look like 1.25 baffles will add about 3/4 oz to the quilt. Your inputs will help me decide.
I typically pair my quilt with either a MB down inner jacket or Thru-hiker synthetic kinsmans pullover. For headware I have always worn a fleece cap or fleece balaclava. The katabatic down balaclava looks rather impressive, I might need to do a MYOG version with the extra down.
Thanks for the inputs and the quilt looks awesome.
JamieDec 12, 2010 at 3:24 pm #1673623
Thanks Jamie! The dims are pretty much the exact dims as a Nunatak Arc Edge, with slightly increased baffle size and a slightly more down. I wanted an Arc Edge… but had a sewing machine and decided to just make my own and save the cash. I am 5'10" and the quilt closes up below my chin. I am a skinny fella, and I can get away with those dims, hence the low weight of the quilt. I even still have room for a down inner and other thin layers in there. The foot box is sewn and has a split baffle in the foot round. I figure if it's too warm, just pull my feet out.
The baffles were not that difficult. I would go the baffle route if you think you might push the range of the bag. Adds a little more weight but lofts up really nice. And you're using M50, so you can afford to add a few bells and whistles ;)
I will make an M50 version of my quilt when black is an option. Until then, this one is light enough for me.Dec 12, 2010 at 4:27 pm #1673634
Alexander, The more I ponder your sleep system the more I appreciate it. I think I would be fine to 30 degrees in it…. a 12 oz bag, thats impressive. I do have one more question. How many inches apart are your baffles?
On a side note I spent almost 2 months working with Tom (Nunatak) designing a bag that I could use close to 20 degrees that was sub 1 lb. I started with a ghost added to the width. My final dimensions were 46 neck/50 shoulde width/36 footbox. I added 1" to length and overstuffed 2 oz. I know these seem large compared to yours but again I wanted to push the ghost. I used the .8 quantum. The final bag including the crazy long understaps weighs 15.55 oz. I've only used it once, because I bought a JRB stealth for 40+ temps and later made my 25 degree quilt that I just love for colder temps.
I was originally looking to replace my stealth with a MYOG quilt that weighs ~12-13 oz. I'd probably sell the stealth at that point.
FYI, I'm 5'10" as well, but suspect I weight a bit more. I'm currently 165 but need to get back to my normal 160 lbs.
Thanks for the info,
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