Where to go in Montana/Wyoming?

[Mark Ries]

I would definatly start a plan B and maybe you can go back to plan A But it sounds like a short season out there this year or should I say shorter it is always short

[Mike Gerty]

Does anyone know what map(s) are available for the Bob? No Trails Illustrated for the area…

[Richard Lyon]

The US Forest Service has some good maps of the three Wilderness Areas that make up the complex. Should be available from the Bob Marshall Wilderness Foundation, http://www.thebmwf.org

[Michael Schwartz]

My hikin partner and I've decided to put the Abs and Winds trip on the shelf, along with the maps and books. Simply too much snow this year. We are thinking now of the JMT or SHR, starting mid Julyish. Can anyone comment on the difference between the two in terms of snow and trail conditions? We know that a late snow may change things, but based on the snowfall this year, what can we expect. We also know that if we opt for the JMT, then we will face the walk-up permit system. My friend and I can pretty much go anywhere in the CONUS for almost 3 weeks, so any other suggestions would be appreciated too. Mike

[Mary D]

The Sierra and Cascades both have exactly the same issues as the Rockies, with considerably greater than 200% of normal snowpack in both ranges and still snowing, so you may or may not be any better off on the JMT in mid-July than in the Winds. How are your snow travel skills?

The main thing is to have a "Plan B" and maybe a "Plan C" (always a good idea anyway) and keep track of how fast the snowpack is melting (which the two sites I gave you will do for the Winds). Everything depends on the weather for the next month and a half!

[Michael Schwartz]

Mary, thanks so much for your comments and advice. You have been very helpful. I am trying now to come up with Plans B and C. The problem is that I must change my ticket this week and commit to a destination in the West. I don't mind the snow and have experience but I don't get to practice too often in the snow. Then again, I don't really want to do a snow route the whole way, though I like coming across snow fields now and again. I've been looking at the Hayduke Trail and the Arizona Trail but think both will be too hot in July. Perhaps a section of the CDT in New Mexico or a section on the PCT south of Whitney? Do you have any suggestions? I'd prefer to walk one trail of about 250 miles. I am still doing my research but I don't have much time. I may end up just booking to San Fran?? Any suggestions most welcome. Thanks, Mike

[Al Nichols]

What about the Teton Crest Trail? Did the Tetons get a ton of snow too?

[Peter Scherpelz]

Hi,

You might also check the thread I started with a similar question, albeit a shorter trail length. I'm looking seriously at the Pasayten right now, and the Oregon PCT may be a good possibility for a much longer hike.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=48094

Peter

[Michael Schwartz]

@ Al. The Tetons and the whole area has been hit with heavy snows…more than 200% above avg Mary pointed out. So I am looking elsewhere.

@ Peter. Thanks, good info on the thread you started and looks like your have several good options. I am looking south and weighing up options.

[David Chenault]

Tough call with the snow. There is a lot, and irrespective of temps, there will be quite a bit well into July.

At the same time, I don't think you need to throw in the towel entirely. With modified routes to favor lower elevations, and perhaps added time to get over higher areas, you can still have lots of fun. If nothing else, by July what snow there is will have hardened, and should be reliably fast to travel on early in the day.

The big valleys in the Bob are snow free right now, as are most trails below 5500'. Add a week of warm temps and that snow free zone will climb 500'.

[Mary D]

I agree–it's too early to throw in the towel! Keep an eye on conditions via snotel and streamflow sites (you can google each for the state you want) until about 2 weeks before your trip. That's also a good time to contact the appropriate USFS ranger stations. If you have to change your ticket now, I suggest flying into Salt Lake City. There are a lot of mountain ranges close by (including the Winds) and car rental is generally cheaper than at smaller airports like Jackson. While Utah (Uintas) and Idaho, I understand, have a similar big snowpack problem, the snow may (or may not) melt there faster. As I previously stated, the west coast ranges (Sierra, Cascades) have exactly the same problem, so there's no advantage to going there. You can always pick up a flight from SLC to the west coast if the Sierra turns out to be melting faster than the Rockies.

[Mary D]

I just saw a series of maps for the 90-day projections for the USA. You can find them here: http://blog.chron.com/sciguy/2011/06/final-summer-outlook-for-texas-warmer-wetter/ Ignore the article, which is about Texas, but the weather maps are for the entire US, and they are all in one place for easy comparison. There are three sets: NOAA, ImpactWeather and Accuweather. All three show normal to above normal temperatures and below normal precipitation for the Rockies.

I personally don't put a lot of faith in weather forecasts more than three days out (comes from living in the Northwest!), but at least these projections for June, July and August do inspire some hope!

[Bob Gross]

"Tough call with the snow."

David, can you predict when the Logan Pass Highway will open? Glacier Park isn't much to me until the road opens. Even then, it appears that lots of trails on the Many Glacier area will be snowy into July. Bummer.

–B.G.–

[David Chenault]

Bob, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Logan isn't open for vehicles until early July.

It's raining in town right now, and looks just cold enough to be snowing in the mountains. Late May saw some impressive avalanche activity.

[Bob Gross]

"Bob, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Logan isn't open for vehicles until early July."

I didn't want to hear that.

Two years ago, the plows reached Logan Pass, and then the road was opened just a few days later, and I arrived there two days after that. This year, I don't know what to think.

–B.G.–

[Gary Dunckel]

Bob, when are you expecting to be in the Glacier area? If the Sun road is closed, I bet you will still be able to hike the big lakes in the NW (Kintla, Logging, and Bowman), as well as drive US 2 around to get to the Belly River area in the far north. These places are the first to be snow-free most every year. And keep in mind that they will keep inching their plows toward the pass, and in time other trails will be accessible. Right now, it looks like they've cleared the road from the west to Avalanche CG, and to the Jackson Glacier overlook from the east. So some trails are accessible right now, although you'd likely be on snowshoes.

[Bob Gross]

Yes, I am planning on being there within this month. I've studied the roads and what is open, and the trails and what is open. Many trails are forecasted for a first clearing in July, and that doesn't help me much. Specifically, I had some trail targets in the Many Glacier area and some around the Loop. If all of my targets are closed, I am considering skipping the park altogether.

I've only hiked in that park on one trip before. When NPS puts up a chain and metal trail sign that says "Trail Closed," I assume that they mean it. Or, is it just a suggestion?

I'm thinking that any remaining snow is going to be very old snow with sun cups, so I am probably not going to bring cross country skis. Instead, I will take boots and snowshoes if necessary. In early morning at Logan Pass, the snow may be hard enough to walk over with just boots. Then two hours later I might be sinking in to the crotch unless I have snowshoes.

–B.G.–

[Michael Schwartz]

David and Mary, maybe I won't throw in the towel just yet. You have given me new info to chew on, which I will do. I will try to keep an eye on conditions and keep my options open. I suppose my biggest concern is not the snow but the snow melt and dangerous river crossings. Must consult maps again. I wonder if we take lower routes in the Winds if will we be able to avoid dangerous river crossings? It is my impression that the river crossings on the JMT wouldn't be as difficult or numerous as on a route in the Winds? Is this an accurate appraisal, do you think? M

[Gary Dunckel]

Yeah, June tends to be a little early in the GNP season most years for the best hiking. And when the sign says "Trail Closed," they tend to be serious, and for good reason–griz activity, avalanche danger, etc. As for hiking near Logan Pass, are you hoping to do the Garden Wall? If that first stretch from Logan is snow covered, there no chance you'll be allowed to hike it. It has serious exposure for 1/4 mile, and the trail is just a few feet wide. The NPS installs a garden hose type of hand "railing" once they open the trail. Being so close to the visitor center, there is almost no way you can sneak past the closure sign and a ranger. Without that hose-railing, the shaded icy spots on that trail create a perfect Darwin Award scenerio.

I'm hoping to get up to that area by the 4th of July, and I'm hopeful that there's a fast melt prior to that. I want to do the Garden Wall to Granite Park, over Swiftcurrent Pass and down to Many Glacier. The other hike I'm thinking of is Gunsight Pass-Sperry-L. McD. I did both of these in early July 2006, and had only a small amount of snow to deal with. But they didn't allow hikers on the Garden Wall until after July 4th that year.

Let's hope for the best, Bob.

[Bob Gross]

I was in Glacier in June two years ago, and I hiked up the trail from Many Glacier toward the Grinnell Glacier Overlook, and I saw nobody on the trail that morning. Just a mile or two before I got up there, the Trail Closed sign stopped me, and the only trail users continuing were bighorn sheep. On the way back down, the same trail was crawling with hikers.

As for Logan Pass, I assume that the Highline Trail will be closed along the Garden Wall. Unfortunately, I just checked the Trail Status and found that the trail from the Loop up to Granite Park will be late to open also. So, it appears that I can't get to Granite Park either way. That causes me to consider cutting my driving trip short by 800 miles.

That's too bad about Glacier. I was hoping to get in a bit of wolverine action. I may have to go to central Idaho instead.

–B.G.–

[David Chenault]

Bob, you'll be able to get up to Granite Park from the Loop. Skied up there this time last year, in fact. The trail status dates on the website refer to when they get in to cut out deadfall. Trail closed signs typically are for problematic bear activity or snow and ice, both only during high tourist season.

With small snowshoes, and more often crampons, you'll be able to go just about where ever you like.

M, stream crossings are indeed a concern. While lower down the mountain might find less gradient, you'll also find more streams that have run together and are thus deeper. Usually these are things that can be dealt with, but shouldn't be pushed on those without the inclination.

[Bob Gross]

Two years ago in June, I was hiking from Many Glacier up toward the Grinnell Glacier Overlook. When I was short of there, the trail had a chain and a sign "Trail Closed" and I think it mentioned avalanche hazard. I turned around there because NPS sometimes enforces things strictly, and sometimes it is only a suggestion. I can also understand if there is a bear hazard, like a carcass next to the trail. I would still like to hike up there.

This year, if I start from the Loop and head up toward Granite Park, I would be carrying bear spray, and most of the snow should be melted off with maybe some deadfall.

Is there going to be some ranger up there with a citation book?

I've seen backcountry rangers in Yosemite writing citations, and I would like to avoid becoming a statistic.

Is there any other dependable source of local trail information outside of the Glacier Park NPS site, trail status?

–B.G.–

[David Chenault]

Went and skied Swiftcurrent Mtn yesterday. Snowline is surprisingly high on the slope up to Granite Park Chalet (around 5k), but there is a lot of snow above that. The 1+ story bunkhouses behind the main chalet are almost totally buried. As of now the road is plowed to around 2-3 miles past the loop, with a lot of snow still on the road.

Then again, it was in the 70s yesterday, which should help, but I'm still thinking late June for Logan opening.

[Bob Gross]

"Snowline is surprisingly high"

Very discouraging.

–B.G.–

[Bob Gross]

I contacted GNP. They said that the trails are not closed prior to first clearing, but they are just rough and ugly. One exception is the Highline from Logan Pass. It is considered Closed! until the safety cable is up. I was going to take a shot at getting from the Loop to Granite Park. Unfortunately, the GTTS Road may not be open through Logan Pass, and it is a PITA to drive all the way around from east to west. Besides, if Logan Pass is closed, then I can't hike to Hidden Lake Pass.

I'm hoping for the best, but I think things are swinging the other way. Maybe there will be a heat wave over the next week.

–B.G.–

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