Nov 28, 2010 at 12:28 pm #1265993
Does anyone here have an opinion on whether they feel the Mountain Hardwear Lamina series synthetic fill sleeping bags are relatively true to their temperature ratings? I am especially interested in opinions on the winter versions (Lamina 0, Lamina -15 and Lamina -30) where MH doesn't use EN 13537 ratings.
Note: I'm not looking for advice on what to purchase, I'm just looking for some data points or comparisons on this particular series.
Thanks!Nov 28, 2010 at 12:40 pm #1668642
MH en rates their lamina and ultra lamina and most of their other bags
most of their bags range from accurate to mildly overated as per the en-tests on their site
most very (below 0F) cold weather bags are not en-rated regardless of manufNov 28, 2010 at 12:42 pm #1668643
Jason DelsoBPL Member
REI carries the 0 degree (but not the other two you mentioned) and show EN ratings:
EN lower limit (rating for men) 10 degrees Fahrenheit
EN comfort (rating for women) 23 degrees Fahrenheit
Temperature rating (F) 0 degrees Fahrenheit
Temperature rating (C) -17 degrees Celsius
(FWIW)Nov 28, 2010 at 12:45 pm #1668644
"most cold weather bags are not en-rated regardless of manuf"
Yes, it's these non-EN-rated versions of the Lamina I'm most interested in… do you feel they continue to be accurate when they can no longer use the EN ratings, or do they begin to exaggerate once no longer using the EN ratings?Nov 28, 2010 at 12:47 pm #1668647
That's interesting Jason… so if this is accurate, it implies that the overall rating they are giving out (0F) is likely exaggerated by 10F or so?
Although on MH's website it says they don't do EN ratings for bags 0F and below, so I wonder if REI has the Lamina 0 tested independently?Nov 28, 2010 at 12:57 pm #1668651
Eric BlumensaadtBPL Member
@danepackerLocale: Mojave Desert
My Mt'n. Hardwear -20 Polarguard Delta bag is heavy and bulky (won't fit in my pack). But it does have one redeeming factor. It has a full length zippered, expandable gore that adds 3" to the girth.
With the expansion gore zipped open I can easily fit my WM Megalite down bag inside or my down quilt on top inside and still maintain the down bag's loft. This gives me a bag combo likely good to -40 F./C.
To me, though it adds weight, I feel all 0 F. or lower down bags should have shculd a zippered expandable gore as a safety item.Nov 28, 2010 at 12:58 pm #1668653
Jason DelsoBPL Member
Good catch. I don't know where REI got the EN rating info for the Lamina 0 (or if it's accurate). Hmmm…Nov 28, 2010 at 12:58 pm #1668654
assuming that there's no unobtanium … youll just have to go to the old school method of looking at the amount of fill in the bag, or the weight of the bag itself i guess
note that their temp rating could be construed as you sleeping in yr all clothes or using a VBL, as many do at those low temps … or it could be some brilliant idea from a marketing yuppie high on the latest sulawesi blend from sbucks
id assume that you need more than a base layer to be comfortable at those -20F and -40F temps for say the tundra and darkstar below … what i assume are the en ratings show a bit of a gapNov 28, 2010 at 1:17 pm #1668660
Jeffs ElevenBPL Member
Marmot has their 0degs EN tested (at least the Lithium)Nov 28, 2010 at 1:24 pm #1668666
Eric, good idea to compare fill weights. I graphed the fill weights vs temperature rating for the entire Lamina series, and it seems to make some sense – its somewhat exponential with larger increases in fill weight for each step getting colder.
"Marmot has their 0degs EN tested (at least the Lithium)"
According to some quick research, EN 13537 ratings can be applied down to -25C (-13F) comfort ratings. This document from Mountain Hardwear says that they apply EN 13537 ratings only to bags above 0F.Nov 28, 2010 at 1:31 pm #1668668Dec 3, 2010 at 4:06 pm #1670578
don t know about the winter bags but i have the lamina + 20 and at 25 deg one night i woke up sweating in it wearing just underwear and a t shirt for a base layer
divr6347Dec 3, 2010 at 7:29 pm #1670655
Michael FogartyBPL Member
I have the -30, and IMHO, it would not keep one warm at -20, without sleeping in extra heavy clothing. I'm talking Mtn. Hardwear Chugah(spelling) pants, and a Patagonia Das Parka.
The 6'6" bag is oversized though, So its great to layer in, or like another mentioned, slip another bag inside. The only bag I would trust to its rating would be a WM or simular down bag, but then of course, the longer your out, the more the down bag will gradually begin to loose its loft.Dec 3, 2010 at 7:35 pm #1670663
The Lamina 20's and up seem to be reasonably accurate by all the accounts I've heard, but from what I've put together here and elsewhere, I'm thinking it would be appropriate to de-rate the Winter Lamina bags by about one step. There seems to be some EN ratings out there saying that the Lamina 0 is really only good to about 10F without additional warm clothes. So you might guess that the Lamina -15 would be good to around 0F, and then say that the Lamina -30 would be okay to -15F or so without adding a bunch of clothes.
I'm getting the impression that the winter Laminas are rated with the expectation that you'll be using a fair amount more clothing.
I have a Lamina -15F in my possession that I'd like to use this winter, and as long as it can get me to 0F (-18C) before adding a lot of clothes that will be adequate.Dec 3, 2010 at 7:46 pm #1670670
Michael FogartyBPL Member
Yeah, I'd say you'd easliy be good with the -15deg at zero degree weather. You can always add clothing and a hot Nalgene too, should things get a lttle colder!
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