First time I ever weighed my gear!

Pardon the pun in the subject line, could not resist.

I must admit you guys have inspired me to modifiy certain things in my gear. The axe ain't going anywhere, though.

I am headed to the hardware store today to check out smaller tarps. I go solo 50%, and go with family/friends 50%, so I really ought to have two different gear lists. For example the big tarp I use that can fit two people plus gear should just be used with company. Tarps are cheap anyhow, so having two different ones is no big deal.

I am also going to build my own sleeping mat. I was thinking I could do layers: 1st layer moss or pine branches, 2nd layer sheet of plastic, 3rd layer a fleece blanket. Plus I am planning on getting a bivy anyhow, which would add another layer.

Also going to modify my cooking pot. Rather than use the tri handle, going to drill holes in the side and loop a bit of steel wire to hang over the campfire. In the past I would place three stones in the middle of my campfire and then place the pot on the stones as my stove. This gets the pot dirty with soot anyhow, and I have since learned of many good methods to cook over the fire with stick tripods and such.

Will also look into lighter poncho, those are dirt cheap, and I can always use my current camping poncho in my other backpack which I use for urban/school purposes.

My heavy pack ain't going anywhere either. It is a dream on my back. A lot of that weight is due to padding and straps and such that make it very comfortable and disribute the weight. If you have not tried out a Fjällräven pack, I highly recommened it, even if you might think they are really heavy. Even UL packs get heavy with food and water, especially on longer trips, and I betya my pack is more comfortable with a heavier load than a super UL pack is. :P

So thanks again for the inspiration, tips, advice, insights, etc., especially Mike for his detailed comments.

@Andy: Glad I am not the only one on here that understands the beauty of having a good axe! And just think when the zombies show up, all the axe nay-sayers will be doomed! DOOOMED I say!

@Jason: Yeah, not all UL gear is highway robbery, but that stuff is out there. I have seen what looks like reasonable prices for some gear. And I love the DIY/MYOG UL stuff! But I have also seen tents and bivys for over 200 UK pounds, which is a lot if you ask me.

@Mike: I checked out your gear list, thanks for the tip. I must admit, as more of a trad/bushcrafty guy, it stuns me how you do it. I would love to go out with an UL person, but have yet to meet one in real life. I only ever talk to them via internet (like now). I spoke to a friend of mine today about all this, he's a trad guy (he goes MUCH heavier than me, btw… taking cans of baked beans and other type light/UL sins), and he gave a good insight on the situation. The way he put it, it seems like us trad guys see this has more of a way to go out and hang out in the woods. Sure, we hike a lot, but once we find a really sweet spot, we like to stick around, go fishing, sit around the campfire, take our time. UL seems more like a sport, like you guys are looking to cover as much ground as possible and not do as much hanging out and fishing and bon fires and such. Or is this not accurate?

Cesar,

For me, with the lighter weight I can go farther, quicker and be less tired. I am able to cover a nice distance and still give myself plenty of camp time (and fishing), which I really enjoy.

going UL opens up possibilities that allows you to get into and out areas in a given time frame that would be very difficult to accomplish w/ more weight

lots of folks fish on this forum, sometimes we take our time at a lake/stream- sometimes we fish 10+ different lakes/streams in a trip :)

there are some folks that mileage/time are very important, others not so much- I think it's pretty difficult to try and pigeon hole this group as it's pretty diverse

Okay guys, today I re-packed my gear and made some changes. There was a lot that did not change, but just to make sure my math is right I will list everything again, then explain what the changes are. Here goes:

Backpack: Fjällräven Halags Trekking 40 liter, 1.772kg
Sleeping mat: Home made, .852kg
Sleeping bag: Fjällräven (synthetic, max -8c), 1.309kg
Tarp: generic white heavy-duty tarp, .520kg
Rope: generic nylon, .211kg
Survival kit: first aid, pen, pencil, paper, duct tape (wrapped around pen), flashlight, matches, bic lighter, string, razor blade, .232kg
Axe & sheath: Fiskars, .602kg
Trowl: generic plastic, .052kg
Rain poncho: generic plastic, .354kg
Pack rain cover: .102kg
Map: color, plus plastic jacket, .055kg
Mess kit: Light My Fire mug, spork, cutting board, bag .141kg
Toilet Paper: generic partial roll in a plastic bag, .050kg
Hygine: toothbrush, etc. .242kg
T-shirt: generic, .149kg
Cooking kit: teapot, pot, wire, .378kg
Boxers: generic, .086kg
Cellphone: Nokia, .087kg
Plastic bag: generic garbage, .079kg
Compass: with singal mirror, .079kg
Socks: generic, two pair, .120kg
Insect repellent: liquid pump spray, .160kg
Fishing gear: essentials + rod, .717kg
Lip balm: generic, .012kg
Knife: Swiss army, Nomad model, .120kg
Water bottle: Platypus 1 liter, .026kg

New Total: 8507kg (18.7154lbs)

First I removed a plastic plate from the back of my pack to make it lighter. There is a lot of padding on the straps and back of the pack anyhow, so I don't think the inner-support thingy will be missed.

I remembered that I had another rain poncho in my car, and turned out to be lighter, so I swapped them.

Then I when to the hardware store and bought a smaller tarp to replace my bigger one, and also picked up one of those silver space blankets. They were both around the same price, about 3 bucks. When I got home I got an old sheet of thick plastic out of the garage, laid down on it, and cut a square roughtly to suit my size. I unfolded the space blanked, folded it in half, centered it on the piece of plastic (which it nearly fit perfectly), then took some duct tape to secure it in place. Then I got an old fleece blanket, folded that in half, and centered it on the space blanket (which also nearly fit perfectly). And now I have a new sleeping mat that is 5 layers thick and much lighter than my old one.

I re-packed my gear and nixed the saw and the PJs.

Gotta say I am pretty happy about the changes, and can't wait until spring to try out my new system. Especially the sleeping pad, I tried it out on my hardwood floor and it was pretty comfy. I bet it will be even better over a patch of moss.

Cesar,

Congratulations on your new gear and the modifications! You will, no doubt, go thru several rounds of such improvements and gear swaps as you try out your complete kit in the field.

It's all part of the fun. Now get out there and try it out! I hope you don't have to wait until spring!

Cesar, good progress, but you've got a world of possibility left.

The transition from near 20lb base to 10lbs is night and day, it will completely change your hike.

I however, unlike the rest of these guys don't begrudge you the Axe. I've got around a 6-7lb 3-season base wt, but my recent goal is to get it down to 5lbs or lower in order to justify carrying my 23oz Himalayan Imports Ang Kola Khukri.. =D

Many of us carry some pretty insane "luxury" items (*cough* iphones/pods), which all add up reasonably significant unnecessary wts. Often times, the worst offenses are "convenience" or "paranoia" items: An extra cook pot or one that's way larger than necessary, an extra fleece you never wear or redundant wind/rain layers, etc..

Axes and other big blades aren't items of convenience, they're pure *fun* items for those of us whom can't help but bring them.

My philosophy: If it's one of the major contributing factors to your hike's "fun factor", dont sacrifice it, just ditch all the other BS.

Here's a goal I'm going to throw out for you: Get your base wt down to 10lbs (4.5kilos), not counting the Axe, then tell everybody that mentions your axe that I said to "Kiss your a". ;)

Here's my suggestions on what to focus on first FWIW:

Backpack: Fjällräven Halags Trekking 40 liter, 1.772kg (Replace this with a UL pack, you can easily save 1 kilo here)
Sleeping mat: Home made, .852kg (is this warm enough to get to the lower limit of your sleeping bag? I'm gonna guess the answer is no, you can save alot here also most likely, especially if you go with a torso pad)
Sleeping bag: Fjällräven (synthetic, max -8c), 1.309kg (Big expense but you can save alot of wt here, atleast half a kilo)
Tarp: generic white heavy-duty tarp, .520kg ( replace this immediately with a 30D Silnylon tarp, they're cheap, and from what I've seen the so called "Heavy Duty" generic tarps are never actually heavy duty in the sense that we use it here)
Rope: generic nylon, .211kg (I don't know the length here, but I'm gonna suggest replacing it with Spectra/Dyneema line like Amsteel Blue if you feel you need rope)
Rain poncho: generic plastic, .354kg (this seems really heavy, if it's not breathable, get a cheap emergency poncho?)
Pack rain cover: .102kg (Ditch this completely, it's useless, use a UL pack liner or compactor bag inside your pack)

@Todd: Thanks! I have been working hard on having having an evolving passion for backpacking. I am still not sure that I will go UL, but I am officially lightweight at least, and I think all this has helped to broaden my horizons. As far as waiting until spring, we'll see. I was thinking of doing some winter camping if I have the time. It was -11c today, so it will be a challenge, but one that I am sure will be worthwhile if I am able to accept it.

@Andy: Glad to hear that others fish too. And nice avatar pic. Fishing also helps a lot with food weight, if you eat what you catch.

@Mike: Also glad to hear you fish too. Maybe you or Andy could give me some UL fishing gear tips? I don't mean to pidgon hole anyone, it is just that UL is new to me and I want to understand it. When you try to understand something new, it helps to use very general ideas and then narrow things down to a more accurate definition. Like I said, I wish I knew an UL so I could see it in action, but all the backpackers I know are traditionals and a few lightweight guys like me.

@Javan: Wow, great feedback, thanks man. I will take it into consideration, but as I said above, not sure if I will ever get to the under 10lb mark. We'll see, I might give it a shot in the future, but for now and probably for at least the next very active season (May-Oct) my gear will stay the same.

Glad to hear you have a nice blade like a Khurki. Very useful tool, and yeah, can be fun too. You have a good philosophy if you ask me, it's all about having a good time.

But if I do get under 10lbs, the axe will still be there.

As far as the gear comments:

Not sure how the sleeping pad will work out, as I just made it and have yet to test it. We'll see. If it is not doing the trip of keeping me warmn and comfy, I will look into buying a lighter mat.

Yeah, UL bags are expensive from what I have seen. Maybe if I can pick one up used for cheap.

I will look into that Silnylon tarp, thanks for the info. Never heard of it before. I am going on vacation to the US in a few months, so I will keep an eye out for it. But in fairness to my hardware bought tarp, it is the same kind I have used in the past with great results. I have slept out in thunderstorms with lots of wind and rain and not gotten a single drop on me using only tarp, rope, sticks, and a bit of duct tape sometimes.

The rope and poncho I will also look out for, thanks again for the specific name.

The rain cover I was actually thinking about nixing anyhow, if you notice I didn't include it in my first gear list. But then when I cut all the weight I thought it might be nice, but come to think of it in the past what I have done is just warn my poncho over the pack when it rains. This works well anyhow, and if I am not walking I put the pack into the big ol' garbage bag. So consider the rain cover nixed. I will add it to my urban backpack maybe, which I carry my laptop in. For now I use a plastic bag, but it is a pain in the neck to find a dry spot, take out the laptop, put it in the bag, etc. With the rain cover I can just cover my whole pack and be done with it.

So yet another new total, and hopefully last one for a while (unless one of you kind/rich UL peeps wants to buy me some UL gear?).

8.405kg (18.491lbs)

Hi Cesar, the Integral designs Siltarp 2 is available from Friluftsland in Denmark (where I live) it is a 3 by 2.45 m tarp with many tie out points. You can look at the tarp details here and the Friluftsland details here. The weight is about 400gms, a lighter single tarp (Siltarp) weighs in at 200 gms for a 2.45 by 1.5 m tarp

Both are available at Friluftsland. (BTW I have no affiliation with Friluftsland)

Check out the fishing forum in BPL. A rod and reel is the best addition to my Kit. Very fun luxury.

Use bear spray if you're worried about security.

Might want to think about getting a dehydrator. I got one for $45 from Amazon (Nesco 75..something). Dehydrated stew, pasta meat sauce or something meaty, substantially cuts down your food weight, is super easy and very hearty. 6 lbs turns into less than one.

Then make a cozy (insulated pot holder) out of dollar store windshield reflector (reflectix) to cook your meals. You may find you'll do away with most of your cooking gear.

Healthy, hearty, cheap and way lighter than cliff bars etc. Of course, you'll be craving pizza and fried chicken after because it's all boiled food.

Things may seem expensive in relative terms (I can use this $150 pack for everything, right down to the zombie apocalypse), but in absolute terms UL gear is the same price. Silnylon is cheap. You can get a Golite quilt or Sierra Designs Nitro for $150 (North American shipping).

BTW, that spectra cord that ZPacks sells is good stuff. It weighs next to nothing and would likely take care of your roping needs.

I am sure a lot of you guys have gotten a good laugh at the noob guy's list and all the changes made. But again, thanks to everyone for all the great tips, encouragment, etc. Been pretty welcoming and friendly thus far, I must say.

So I finally nailed down what is more or less my final gear list. It reflects a lot of changes, as is clear from the first post to now. The last few details I had fun working on this weekend were:

Ligther sleeping mat (trimmed plastic, found lighter blanket)
Lighter rope
Added rain pants (forgot about em before)

And the big one, switched backpacks.

I was messing with my original pack, when one of the straps broke. I got annoyed at this, because the pack is fairly new. So today I took it back to the store, and swapped all my gear back to my old one, which is lighter but less volume. Turns out I was able to fit all the gear and still have a little room. The nixed items created space a lot more space than I thought.

So check out my gear list on my profile, I just PDFed it.

The new total is:

7837g (17.2414lbs)

:)

I haven't read this thread since I posted on it. But I wanted to throw this out there about sleeping pads, for Cesar…

If you're willing to sleep on a fleece blanket and a tarp, brother, you should be willing to sleep on a simple closed-cell foam pad. They are effectively indestructible, probably warmer than moss, certainly more convenient than moss, and pretty easy to pack.

A 10mm FULL LENGTH evazote pad weighs under 6 ounces (170g), and costs $20.

Also- I wasn't going to beat this point earlier- but, yeah, a silnylon tarp would be WAY lighter than that hardware tarp. I'm glad you're looking into them. you can get them in Europe- there is no need to buy a U.S. product on your trip- but I think there ARE more U.S. manufacturers of UL gear, so you might get more choices here.

Also, conventions:

Most of us consider:

20 pounds (9.08kg) to be "lightweight" backpacking, and…
10 pounds (4.54kg) to be "ultralight."

Okay, after spending a lot of time at a bushcraft website, where I feel somewhat more at home, and messing around with my gear and getting a hold of some new gear, this is what I have come up with.

I put together two new sets of gear. Both sets are under 20lbs and thus Lightweight, but one is more bushcraft inspired and one is a more "quick and easy" trip. The bushcraft gear has my fishing kit/pole, my small folding saw, my Big Agnes Fly Creek UL1, and a few other goodies. It is also inteded for a longer stay in the woods, like say 1.5-2 nights out rather than just an overnighter. I am a new father and college student so trips longer than 2 nights are not possible.

Anyhow, my 2nd quick and easy overnight trip gear list I have uploaded to my profile here. To my surprise I am only about 5lbs away from being UL. But as I don't have the cash for a UL bag, sleeping bag, or tarp… this is as light as it is going to get for now. And the axe still ain't going anywhere! I will be using this set of gear more I think, because I do a lot of reading for school and plan on taking a lot of study overnight trips. I find I can concentrate very well in the woods, and want to take as much advantage of this as possible.

I want to thank everyone yet again for the feedback. Very interesting experience and I have had a lot of fun playing around with my gear, weighing stuff, making homemade stuff, etc.

I want to give an special thanks to Javan who came over to the bushcraft site and got an interesting debate going, plus I read his feedback here about being too obsessed with gear and such, and thought it very cool. I have to say it feels weird being in my situation as a hybrid of bushcraft and lightweight. I am inspired by what I deem the good side of both, and at the same time disgusted by the bad sides of both. I wish I could take a SUL gram nazi and put him in the same room as a diehard redneck with his ultraheavy 50lb backpack with 5 knives and 2 axes and see them scream at each other while I watch and eat popcorn.

I said it over and over again on the bushcraft site, and I will say it here too, both schools of camping could learn a lot from each other!

Woops, forgot to post my weight totals for those of you lazy bums that don't want to check out my full gear list.

Base weight: 6513g (14.33lbs)

With food and water: 8133g (17.89lbs)

Still working on getting that whole skin out total. Been too busy with the base weight and food to bother with my clothing and shoes, but the numbers above represent literally everything else that I take into the woods besides the clothing on my back.

I think you can save some serious weight by simply doing more with less.

Nix:
Teapot 203 (Use a mesh container of some sort or skim the leaves off the top and make the tea in your regular pot)
Trowel 52 (use a stick, a rock, your heel, etc.)
Toilet Paper 50 (seach for "p00 clinic" on youtube)
Cell Phone 87 (Do you even have reception out there? If you do is it worth the distraction?)
Leave the mug at home 35ish? (I'd say to leave the bowl if you weren't cooking over wood fires)

Total = 427 grams or 15.06 ounces! That's almost a pound!

The rest of that pound can be found in these areas:

Your survival and first aid kits seem heavy. Do you need a trash bag and a space blanket? If it were me I'd want to keep the first aid kit comprehensive enough to avoid receiving a posthumous Darwin Award with the axe. That's also why I'd prefer a large blade instead – replace the axe and the knife with an old Ka-Bar (or similar) when you aren't doing a dedicated bush craft trip. This would save some serious weight while retaining much of the functionality of the axe. It'd also give you the opportunity to practice different skills than those you'd use with the axe.

Your hygiene kit seems heavy too. A bandanna weighs little and can double for a towel. Dr. Bonners can double as tooth paste and soap. Or you can go the baking powder route for toothpaste and keep the soap. Repackage it and carry only what you'll need for the trip.

Definitely look into a silnylon tarp in the future. If you know someone who sews or a local seamstress you could probably commission one on the cheap. You'd probably have to source materials yourself though. Of course if you have access to a machine then you could easily make this yourself.

Contemplate how much redundancy you really need in your backup gear since you have a very functional blade with you. Do you even need a space blanket since you carry a poncho? You could save some poncho weight with a 7 ounce Golite Poncho tarp (40% off right now) but I'm not sure if the shipping would be worth it.

Thanks for the detailed feedback Larry!

I am a bit confused by Nixing the teapot. In this set of gear I don't take a pot to cook in, only the teapot to boil water. I add the boiling water to either my mug or my bowl for tea or food.

The Trowel and TP I will look into. I have honestly thought about leaving the trowel due to it being bulky to pack, but it is pretty good on weight… I will think about it.

Cell phone stays, I need to keep in touch with my family. I do get reception, actually, even though I am usually between 3-6km deep into the woods, and this is away from any city limits as is. But if I was single I would think about it.

Interesting points about hygiene, I will also take those into consideration. I was actually thinking about cutting a big square from an old t-shirt to use as a towel, which is about the same as a bandana.

I have a KA-Bar actually. I use it a lot on day trips when I only need a smaller fire and doubles as a machete. Also take it when I go on more hardcore trips 10-15km out in the woods, where there are bears and wolves. Granted, it is more of a psychological security measure, but it literally helps me sleep better at night in a more isolated/dangerous setting having it right next to me.

silnylon I have been meaning to look into for a while now, but the last of my dough for my camping gear got eaten up by my new BA sleeping pad, which btw was very much worth it. I cut my pad weight almost in half, and it is even more comfy than my old one. My wife has a sewing machine and is quite good with it, so if I can find some of this elusive silnylon maybe making my own tarp will happen.

The space blanket actually saves me weight. Rather than have a bivy or extra clothing for warmth, I can put the space blanket inside of my sleeping bag and be toasty warm, especially when used in combination with my poncho on top of my bag as a poor man's bivy. A lighter one would be nice, but it would also have to be very strong. I have gone through a few ponchos in my day from brush, thorns, etc. The woods I travel through are thick, and about 90% of my hiking is off any kind of trails or roads.

"I am a bit confused by Nixing the teapot. In this set of gear I don't take a pot to cook in, only the teapot to boil water. I add the boiling water to either my mug or my bowl for tea or food."

Ah, I see. I assumed the bowl was metal and used for cooking. I guess the advice should have read to nix the mug, bowl, and teapot for a single pot. I guess you could eat out of the tea pot but that seems mighty awkward if it's designed how it looks in my head. Titanium is expensive (relatively speaking) but should stand up to fire better than an aluminum pot.

Since you're short on cash carry on.

So you're basically using the emergency blanket as a vapor barrier then. Have you considered vapor barrier clothes instead? They're reported to be a bit more efficient. More info here: http://andrewskurka.com/advice/technique/vaporbarrierliners.php

I wrote about cheap poly tarps:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/forum_thread/41869/index.html?skip_to_post=356060#356060

I got an 8×10 for $4.99 and it is just 24oz. It will work give as much shelter as expensive silnylon tarp. Any bushcrafter worth his salt should be able to whip up some nice shelter options with an 8×10 tarp.

I borrow from the bushcraft side of the fence in using a "real" knife and more survival and improvising items like wire and a fishing kit. I credit UL techniques with being better at low impact leave-no-trace camping. My bushcrafting skills are there if I lose my gear.

I think you're undergeared. Unless I'm totally wrong (often) a chainsaw and double barreled shotgun is the bare minimum for surviving a zombie attack.
Personally, I don't worry about it, as zombies are only native to the western coastline of the US.

iPhone 4 in a Defender Otter Case: 6.9oz
New Trent 5000mAh charger and cable: 5.9oz

Accessing Motion-X approx a dozen times during the hike to mark waypoints and check my position on pre-downloaded topo maps, plus about a dozen photos and a couple of short videos leaves me with ~75% charge remaining by the end of the day. On a three-day hike, I used less than 20% of the New Trent battery to recharge the phone each night.

Phone settings:
1. Turn off all unnecessary location services (everything but Motion-X and camera).
2. Turn off push notifications, wifi, bluetooth, 3G, Cellular Data.
3. Close all running apps (especially if I launch them while hiking).
4. Switch Motion-X to manual mode GPS.

I still tend to use a good topo map and compass, but the iPhone gives peace of mind when I wander off-trail. The GPS Altimeter is generally accurate within 50-75ft. Even in valleys under forest canopy it picked up GPS signals fairly quickly. I don't have a dedicated GPS, so I can't compare, but even when only using coordinates, it makes a nice addition to a paper topo. It makes a great still and video camera, lets me carry digital books (both audio and "print"). The only thing lacking is a barometer. It's a lot of weight, but after this last excursion it moved from "luxury" item to "essential".

I know it's been a while since you said it but I just wanted to comment on your Elitist comments since it's something that's been on my mind a lot lately.

Anyone who's ever gotten what sounds like an underhanded insult and slightly rude comment on a post as a newbie (like I still consider myself to be) can relate to your feelings of elitism around here. It can and does happen, but I have discovered through some of the people I've met in real life, that most people are actually very nice and not condescending at all, though it can sound like that online sometimes. I think you have to be willing to accept that humor and tone get lost on the net and give people the benefit of the doubt. I don't think people are trying to be rude but I know it can come across that way.

joslyn, et al – just remind the a-hole(s) that nowhere in the title of this website are the words Backpackingultralight or Backpackingsuperultralight. some ppl cannot even detect what is right in front of their faces.