Denali Gear List

[Mike Clelland]

Your list looks entirely "traditional" – not much lightweight emphasis – but, that's okay, the mountain is COLD!

– also –

You could NIX the cook tent, and just cook out in the open.

And – One ascender is just fine.

— NIX — The vapor barrier liner for sleeping, it is cold and dry at those elevations, stuff will stay dry out just fine.

Use a full size bic – trust me on this one – easier with gloves.

Don't spend money on a sled. Just use the kiddie sleds that they have up there. THe pilot service will have ooodles of them.

Take a few more wire gat biners, and an extra locker.

READ THIS BOOK!:
http://littleboingmarks.blogspot.com/2009/05/glacier-mountaineering-is-back-on.html

[Ben Barlin]

It looks like you only have the 30M Rando. Definately need a full length rope for crevasse rescue. Also need 3 ice screws to get around Windy Corner, the only place you would need them if it is icy.

The biggest place to lighten up is to take less food and fuel. Don't take any extra. People are always giving food and fuel away at 14 Camp and at High camp. Just be aggressive in asking everyone if they will give you their extra when they pull out.

[S Long]

Really three ice screws? Seems like a lot of screws. I do an awful lot of ice climbing and usually run it out a bit even on WI4 terrain. And you think longer than a 30 for a potential two man rope team?

[Ben Barlin]

Yes longer. If one of you falls in you have to have enough rope to attempt rescue. Since it is only 2 of you at least a c x z system (probably more) to get out, if you are lucky. So you need at least as much rope on each man coiled as you do between you. Unless you plan to only have 5 meters between you and use none of it on the sled you need more. I personally think it is a crap shoot with 2 people on the lower glacier but only you can set your risk profile. If it were me with 2 people I would only travel at night until I reached 14K camp. As 2 ice screws the traverse around windy corner, even with a 60M rope stretched out will require 3 screws on a bad day, which happens alot. The crevasses are huge below the corner and a slip here is not good with a sled pulling you down the hill already. You don't need long screws.

[Mike Clelland]

Two person crevasse rescue is no joke, it's serious!

GET THIS BOOK!

LINK:
http://littleboingmarks.blogspot.com/2009/05/glacier-mountaineering-is-back-on.html

–

–

Also, that rope will NEVER be on your back, you'll ALWAYS be dragging it on the snow. So, weight is absolutely NOT an issue. A big fat 10.5mm 50M rope will be fine. You can step on it and not worry.

Remember, there will be NO OCCASION where you will need to cary the rope. And, with a short rope, you are in danger of getting dragged into the same hole if your partner falls in. ANd adding a sled to this system can be disastrous in the event of a fall.

[S Long]

Can do. I should add a note for clarity about the two man teams, though. I have a fair amount of experience in crevasse rescue, as do the other people on this trip. The two man rope teams was an idea I have been kicking around since a trip to the Swiss alps and Chamonix a couple years ago. We would NOT be a lonely two man rope team on the glaciers. It would likely be at least 4-6 of us. However, only having two people roped together in small teams seems to make roped travel a little less problematic and frees up the other people in the group for rescue efforts should someone fall into a crevasse. I could be wrong about this, but a longer rope does sound like a better idea. Thanks for the input.

[Mike Clelland]

Good to hear.

No need to tie into each end. You can have some tails (no need carry coils, just let those tails dangle) 20 % or so at each end.

M!

[Anonymous]

"However, only having two people roped together in small teams seems to make roped travel a little less problematic and frees up the other people in the group for rescue efforts should someone fall into a crevasse"

The downside to two man teams, and it's potentially a biggie, is that you are depending on one ice ax to arrest a fall if someone goes in the hole. We were taught, for this reason, to always have three to a rope if there were three available. Conservative? Probably, but it gave a margin for error with very little, if any, downside. The only people I ever heard of going 2 to a rope were highly skilled climbers who climbed in a party of two, unsupported. One of them told me that for people at that level it wasn't so much a matter of having two axes to perform the arrest but, rather, the extreme difficulty and danger of one person trying to extract the other from the crevasse unassisted. FWIW.

[Brian Austin]

I would bring along a prussic minding pulley. Especially for 2 man group. Is that what your Petzl crevasse rescue kit is??? Now you say you are going with 4-6 so its not as big of an issue, but between the 4-6 of you, adding a PMP isn't hardly any weight at all and makes pulling far far easier. Well, it makes it possible is a better description, than easier. Try pulling on iced ropes in the wind and snow when there is a ton of friction at the C&Z or just Z or just C because its a carabiner instead of a pulley. NOT fun, and more importantly, its SLOW. No movement = Cold.

If it was a true 2 man team, as far as I am concerned, they are mandatoy if a single person is going to have any luck actually pulling another climber out of a hole if they are partially injured. Otherwise the climber in the hole prussics up and out by themselves or you go unroped if conditions mandate it. IE not enough hardware to belay properly and if one slips he pulls the other off and you both die. 1 dead is better than 2 dead. If an Injured climber can't help(unconscious) crawling down a crevasse hole and hauling up on prussics with a climber on your back, oi its hard. Heck, impossible is a more apt description.

Oh yea, will both 2 person teams be close together at all times? If not that 3 prussics, IMO needs to be 4. If two teams are at all times following each other then theoretically you could get away with 2… If not… EDIT: I see you are bringing an ascender so guess you really do have 4 "prussics". =)

1) to anchor, your leg prussic in my case
2) to 1st pulley
3) From tail of rope back to anchor to hold the setup and let you pull #1/2 down the rope, or conversely you have to count on holding all said tension around your waist and try doing this at the same time.
4) Rope to my hand. Don't know about you but single person on an iced rope and you can't grip it hard enough to actually pull. Though I grant you if its doable, I sit, wrap rope around my waist and stand up and back. Maybe I am doing something wrong, but I have not gotten a Kleinheist knot to work for crevasse rescue for attaching to my hands as this would allow you to use a runner in place of yet another 6mm perlon cord.

2c goes splash in the drink. Makes a ripple not sure about the splash though…

[James holden]

if you think youll be doing a rescue … i second the pulley …

on rock i always have 2 DMM revolvers which i use as biners normally till they are needed … you can get some light "real" pulleys … consider the tibloc, or other ascender if youre going to bring one anyways, as well if you havent already … prussics in wet/icy conditions are no fun

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