What happened to the Marmot Mica?

holes dont let much air in … theyll let the smelly armpits perspire

the key to windshirt is breathability … as long as it stops the wind decently and has some DWR … thats all you need … a bit of minor permeability actually helps in increasing breathability ….

if yr in gale force winds anyways … youll have yr hardshell … and likely be in a tent

if it aint breathable, youll be sweating

This will show my ignorance, but what do you consider a hardshell? Something heavy and thick like a ski jacket? Or do you mean a rain jacket like the Mica?

Unfortunately I haven't been able to find a Marmot anywhere to try on for size. I'm 5'9", 140lb, skinny… I assume I'd normally be a small, but if I want to wear either the rain or wind jacket over my 14oz (total weight) down jacket, would medium be large enough? I'm rethinking the size I might need, would love anyone's experiences with Marmot jackets. :)

And here's another question – in dry conditions is there a difference between wearing a wind jacket over or under a down jacket? It should block the wind either way, but will the down be less effective on the outside?

The general consensus is that a hard shell is an outer waterproof outer shell jacket that goes over everything else. Think of the Mica as a light hardshell.

If it helps, I am also about 5'9", 145lb, thin, and find the medium Marmot Mica fits me fine. It is a little snug fitting, a little tight for a big down puffy. I can fit a long sleeve baselayer and my Mont-Bell Thermawrap jacket under it comfortably.

I have not used it very much so cannot provide details as to how well it works or holds up over time. It does seem to breathe somewhat better than my other jackets though. I am a little concerned about using it in sustained multi-day rain.

Medium if you want to layer a light down/syn jacket under

That's helpful! From yours and others' comments, I'm thinking I should get a large rain jacket (to be sure to go over a down) and a medium wind jacket (which may or may not go over my fairly light down).

Eric, you said you were waiting for the trail wind on sale – if you meant to get a new one, I've found it on sale at a couple of places today (thanks to your black friday post).

http://www.masseysoutfitters.com/PAJIIABDAJONMIHJ/Product?key_id=0785562950979&ad_id=&zmam=79092582&zmas=1&zmac=28&zmap=PAJIIABDAJONMIHJ&avad=5321_b11275bd

http://www.shoebuy.com/marmot-trail-wind-hoody/391906/836685?

At Shoebuy you need to use the THANKS2010 coupon to save %20, which apparently ends tonight – but Shoebuy has free shipping without adding anything else to the cart.

Marmot Mica on sale @ EMS. 30% off today 9PM – 12AM EST.

That's quite a good price! Also I just looked and 6PM has a similar deal:

http://www.6pm.com/marmot-mica-jacket-lime

Not sure if I'll get a Mica myself yet. I have 2 1/2 hours to decide. :p

I did pull the trigger on a Trail Wind, though. Two jackets down, one to go. :)

i dont know if id wear the rain shell over the windshirt … i usually just swap it out, if i need to put the rain shell on, the windshirt is usually wet … putting them both on seems like a waste at that point

Yeah, I agree with that logic.

What about my question about putting the windjacket underneath a down jacket instead of over it (so that I don't need such a bigger wind jacket)? Assuming no rain, any opinion on whether that reversal in layering would make a difference?

itll be warmer with the down under the wind jacket

however unless you are quite cold i dont recommend hiking in a down jacket under any shell … or hiking in a down jacket at all … last thing you want is to soak yr down with sweat

You can get a hooded version of the Montbell windshirt. They make a hooded version of this windshirt and they also make a pull over (anorak) version that's extremely light at 1.9oz. BPL did a recent review on the pull over and it got high praise.

I agree with the others on the definition of a hardshell. If it's waterproof then it's probably a hard shell. A soft shell is a stretchy jacket that is usually not fully waterproof and a wind shirt is not waterproof.

I would wear a wind shirt over a down jacket rather than under. This traps more air (insulation) between the windshirt and the down jacket. Also, if the down jacket isn't totally windproof, then adding the wind shirt will make it a lot warmer.