Does lightweight philosophy interfere with joining group trips?

"It might be nice to join them sometime but the person who organizes the trips is kind of old-school and would likely disapprove of my gear."

There's a highly organized outdoor group in the Seattle area, the Mountaineers, that I sometimes hike or backpack with, and I've led a couple of backpacking trips for them. As an aside, leading trips allows you to set the ground rules, at least insofar as those fit within the overall rules of the organization.

Like I suspect a lot of such organizations, the Mountaineers have some old-school, conservative policies built into sometimes documented rules, and sometimes into the heads of trip leaders. Apart from climbing a *real* mountain, I like to use trail runners rather than boots, and this is the most common sticking point. I've not encountered serious issues with much else in my gear, and I did one backpacking trip with them where I used a poncho as my only shelter.

On a moderate to short trip, I might toss a pair of light hiking boots hidden in my trunk just in case they get really sticky about the "no jeans, no tennis shoes" sort of mantra. But I'm always ready at need to "play the thru-hiker card", which you certainly can too. I.e., "I went through the Sierras in June in this type of shoe when the passes are butt-deep in snow, went through the Smokies on the AT in March in nothing but snow …". If done correctly (not pushy, arrogant, etc, just sort of background fact sharing) this can give some "cover" to the trip leader, allow them to say "okay" if they're at all inclined to. I think I've ended up wearing the light hiking boots only once on such trips.

Now, slow pace, taking lots of breaks — that definitely has potential to make a person nuts. I think it boils down to expectations, and just sort of changing process to not worry about that stuff, take advantage of the benefits of group hiking instead, i.e., walk slowly behind someone that you enjoy talking to. When you're up and ready to hit the trail in the morning and others are just beginning to fiddle with gear and cooking and so forth, wander about and chat with folks, have a second breakfast (always a favorite activity for me when food supplies permit — or I'm offered excess food that someone else carried! :-)).

I'll be honest, yes, I think many of your thoughts are a touch out of line because they're all formulated around preconceived notions about other individuals and what the group trip dynamics will be like. You haven't even given it a chance. In a way, you've already ostracized yourself from the group, not the other way around. No, lightweight philosophy doesn't interfere with joining group trips, because lightweight philosophy encompasses far more than a 6lb. baseweight and high mileage days.

Certain individuals enjoy and thrive on structured outings and choose to do group trips that cater to a broader range of people and ability levels, others like yourself cherish the self-sufficient approach to hiking and can move along the trail on your own terms and in your own fashion. Both are fine IMO because at the end of the day you're simply getting outdoors. I would say everything you asked and mentioned in your original post hinges on your ability to be flexible and patient. If you can't mesh with others who do things differently then best probably to move along down the trail and do your own thing.

I don't even own a pair of hiking boots.

So what you are all saying is that when you've joined organized trips (I'm not talking about a group of friends) they haven't sent you a list of ridiculous "must have or you can't go" gear? And that if you've shown up with a tiny pack and trail runners they haven't given you a hard time?

The only reasons I would want to join something like this are these:
1) I'd like to do something other than solo trips
2) Perhaps I could grit my teeth through a training course so that I could become a leader myself and then lead the hikes UL-style so people won't have to start off heavy-weight

"2) Perhaps I could grit my teeth through a training course so that I could become a leader myself and then lead the hikes UL-style so people won't have to start off heavy-weight"

I understand exactly what you mean. For a long time, I put up with all of that training.

In my area, one organization has an annual springtime basic backpacker training class and then some field trips. If a person has done that, then they can attend a lightweight backpacker training class and then some field trips of that nature. Believe me, the lightweight crowd won't mind it at all if you show up with a tiny pack and trail runners. They might even try to make you an assistant instructor if you are good enough.

–B.G.–

Seriously: start your own group! :-) It is a great way to find like minded others you will enjoy hiking with. It isn't easy at first and yes there has to be a ring leader for it to work….but in can have great rewards.

Do you need training? Yes and no. It depends what you want really. Our group wasn't friends when we all met, but it led us to friendship. As I said…we are loosely knit, no bylaws, no dues, no club house..lol!

do you want to push yourself to see what you can do?

or join a social group and wander around slowly to the lowest common denominator?

you can always find people with like minds ….

as in rock climbing, some people want to climb as hard as they can …. others just want to take hours going up easy routes

as long as the latter dont try to be "hardcore" there's nothing wrong with either method …lol

"I do not understand why anyone would want to hike with a group.

I run across groups once in a while. Lots of noise and they trample on things."

Holy moly! Here I go, agreeing with you again. ;-)

Well, for those of you that don’t like groups, I guess we won’t see you at the next BPLer’s Gathering of Gear Geeks.

BPLers GGG: Henry Coe State Park, CA.

BPLer’s GGG: Point Reyes, CA. 2nd Annual Trip

BPLer’s GGG: San Francisco Bay Area, CA.; Mt. Diablo

BPLer’s GGG: Yosemite: Hetch Hetchy Resevior to Rancheria Falls

BPLer’s GGG: Point Reyes, CA

Too bad, Ken really is a lot of fun to be around after you get a few drinks in him.

*Edited to add hyperlinks vs. copies of links

-Tony

I generally hike alone but have done a couple of trips with groups here at BPL. The issue for me is not rather people are lightweight or not. It is the hiking style with such factors as high mileage, getting going early, hiking late, breaks etc. There are few people either here or anywhere that hike the way I normally do from can see to cant see. But in the cases where I have gone with a group I will change my style or at a minimum work with theirs on a trip. I certainly wouldn't expect them to conform to me. And in both cases I enjoyed the trip even if it was different than my normal outing.

As far as getting flack for what I take, that wasn't an issue since they were from BPL. But I would expect more curiosity rather than judgement around a different method that is outside the group's comfort zone.

There is a guy I know who did all of his early backpacking and mountain training with the Mountaineers. That is a respectable group, but they were old school, and one of the things that they beat into him was that you must wear this and you must wear that, and it included heavy wool trousers and extra heavy boots. I'm sure that they might have been practical in the Pacific Northwest where they operate more, but this guy moved to California and tried to wear the same stuff. He showed up on a California trip and was really stared-at. Everybody else was wearing thin nylon trousers and mid-height soft boots. Nobody said anything until he explained that he had training from the Mountaineers.

–B.G.–

I'm still hung up on the comments about being more sore when you hike really slow. Maybe that's what happened to me last weekend.

I find window shopping to be exhausting, too. But this hike we did, I swear it was like tai-chi hiking. I think I should try to do more of it. It was like we went so slow that at times I would be stopped with my foot hanging in the air waiting for a chance to go down for the next step. We hiked so slow I decided to hike barefoot for a little while. The ground was too cold so I put my shoes and socks back on — while we were hiking. Yep, we went slow slow I could put my socks and shoes on as we walked without having to stop.

"Tai Chi hiking" — I like that term, I hope you don't mind if I steal it for local use! :-)

W.r.t. another comment:
"… and it included heavy wool trousers and extra heavy boots. I'm sure that they might have been practical in the Pacific Northwest where they operate more …"

Nope, equally silly IMO, barring unusual/special circumstances. I think it boils down to a lot of inertia, plus a large organization is almost bound to be a bit conservative, to err on the side of what they reckon to be caution. And to be fair, there are a lot of people with just zero experience that show up on hikes or backpacking trips, trip leaders definitely do need to watch for things like lots of cotton clothing, truly flimsy shoes, people with no insulative clothing, etc etc.

Diane, one thing you might consider is whether you think you could, and are inclined to be an agent for change. Since I keep going off on long trips, my interaction with the Mountaineers has been pretty limited, but the folks I've worked with have been quite nice and open to other ideas being presented — so long as the basics of safety, etc are covered. Just what those basics are (and whether in fact that can be adjusted based on hiker experience in a group setting) — that certainly can take some discussion.

And certainly I have had people tell me straight to my face that what I have a lot of experience with (and they don't) is simply unsafe period. Heck, I had a fellow with little hiking experience lecture me on all the dangers I was in from bears, with little opportunity for me to interject some basic (sane) facts on the topic. There will always be some of that, but perhaps folks like us can sort of nudge the traditionalists to finding ways to allow folks to learn to hike with lighter loads.

It's the "learning" part that particularly bugs me too. There's a tendency we humans have to sort of anchor on what we're first taught; I've had discussions where the whole thrust of someones argument is "when I was first taught, I was told that …", as if the first presentation is inherently the true and correct one. That's why IMO the approach of being overly conservative to protect beginners from themselves is a real two-edged sword.

Okay, sorry, rambling here, but bottom line is you might consider sort of "infiltrating the organization" to spread your subversive lightweight message. And in doing so it certainly doesn't hurt your credibility to have thru-hiked one of the major trails!

Hiking with a group certainly makes for great stories later.
As Woody Allen said "tragedy plus time equals comedy"

Using Bob G's method of everyone brings a dinner to share,
one 3 night ski trip had us eating nothing but fried
onions one night because I was traveling with freegans.

Other folks in the next nights hut couldn't stand to be
near us as our pores emitted onion for the next two days.

A backcountry ski trip by the way is one of those adventures
best done as a group if there is avalanche hazard potential.