Nov 13, 2010 at 9:09 am #1265430
If anyone wonders why there tends to be resistance to lightweight practices in Canada's backcountry, have a look here:
Many posters do follow lightweight hiking, but the contrarian voices are loud. Sadly, two of them sell gear.Nov 13, 2010 at 12:13 pm #1663904
eric chanBPL Member
never argue david … the best form of settling and argument is to blow by those people on a trail ..
or be on the descent while theyre still on the approach … lolNov 13, 2010 at 12:24 pm #1663906
Yeah Eric – I give up!
Have a good Saturday. I'm off to a swim competition.Nov 13, 2010 at 12:40 pm #1663908
Eugene SmithBPL Member
@eugeneiusLocale: Nuevo Mexico
Well that was an enjoyable read, what a riot!Nov 13, 2010 at 1:25 pm #1663913
@rcaffinLocale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
> Many posters do follow lightweight hiking, but the contrarian voices are
> loud. Sadly, two of them sell gear.
There are two main reasons for a contrarian view:
1) The person has spent a lot of money on heavy-weight gear and does not want to believe or admit (even to himself) he has made a mistake.
2) The person has a vested interest in selling you heavy-weight gear, partly because he makes a bigger profit that way.
A few times it is because the person has been going heavy-weight all his life and simply does not want to (and does not need to) change. Fair enough: who am I to tell him what to do?
And a VERY few times it is because the person is dealing with such extremes that heavier gear is needed – but the number of times this is real is very small. People often claim that they are dealing with extreme conditions when in fact they are simply justifying position 1).
We have similar people in Australia – especially among some older Tasmanians. They seem to take pride in their idea that their conditions are too extreme for light-weight gear, but they are still really in position 1). Why so? Because people from other States do use light-weight gear in Tasmania! As OP said, we don't try to convert them; we just speed past them.
CheersNov 25, 2010 at 7:25 am #1667873
A lot of the arguments seem to be based on their own business. They have to argue that they sell the best stuff out there or fear losing customers.
The other arguments against ultralight seem to be coming from the Luddites or a combination of both.
"The (MSR)Twin Sisters isn't a tent"
"Apples to apples, please! Increase your unobtainium (Dyneema, whatever)"
Lots of other funny/absurd quotes.
I also like the discussion about the sleeping bag. The guy couldn't understand why the height plus added loft of a tall sleeping bag would add up to 84" long:-)Nov 25, 2010 at 8:20 am #1667883
that same individual is now arguing with me about EN testing of sleeping bags. It isn't a perfect system due to some potential testing methodology flaws and also due to factors that can't be replicated in the lab (i.e. caloric intake, resting metabolic rate, etc), but it does allow comparison between comparable bags. His response was that it wasn't a standard in Canada.Nov 25, 2010 at 8:27 am #1667888
Re: "it wasn't a standard in Canada"
So it's meaningless:-)Nov 25, 2010 at 8:45 am #1667895
I might be wrong, but the Club Tread site seems to have the purpose of supporting some outfitter or something.
The forums seem to be full of discussions promoting certain major brands of gear.
Or could people really be that closed minded?Nov 25, 2010 at 9:00 am #1667900
I don't think that is the case. "Long Shadow" the moderator is an open minded individual, no question. However, in Canada we lack outfitters that subscribe to a more lightweight philosophy. In combination with terrain and weather that is generally unpredictable even in the summer months, there is this belief that more gear means a safer experience. Add in the availability of lots of 'traditional' gear and the result is heavy loads for even short trips.
This is not to say you can't get lightweight gear here, Integral Designs has it's roots in Calgary for example, but the larger chains carry it intermittently. I have had to order from US retail stores for ID gear because I couldn't find what I wanted in Calgary(!).
I do see the odd person carrying say an Exos pack on the trail. But then they pull out the 4.5lb solo tent and 3 lb sleeping bag with a 32 degree rating.Nov 25, 2010 at 10:21 am #1667916
@rcowmanLocale: Canadian Rockies
I deal with them everyday at work selling gear and when i talk about some of the common stuff that we talk about here(skurka, cuben, tarptent, frameless packs etc.) you can see the steam come out of their ears and there head cock to the side like a dog listening to a high pitch sound.
You and eric kinda teamed up on them there.
Twin sisters is not a tent. I had to double take on his definition of a tent or shelter. my brain can comprehend that level of stupid.Nov 25, 2010 at 10:24 am #1667917
Eric and I have to do our part as decent BPL'ers. ;)Nov 25, 2010 at 10:31 am #1667919
@rcowmanLocale: Canadian Rockies
I hate to say it but sometimes Canadians are pretty ridiculous when it comes to the outdoors, but i guess everyone's got to climb Everest every time they hike up to berg lake in 2 days… the looks i get with the murmur are pretty funny…
"Your going up in 1 Day!" "wheres your stuff?"
then they find out I'm doing north boundary or moose pass and they need to be evacuated because they had a stroke…Nov 25, 2010 at 10:46 am #1667923
I remember doing a 3 day with a ULA Conduit, nothing external.
A bunch of day hikers carrying day packs asked why I had such a big pack?
I said, some people consider it a small pack for three days.
Their response was shock when they realized I had shelter, food, sleeping bag, pad, … in there.
I get that a lot in the US.Nov 25, 2010 at 12:31 pm #1667940
eric chanBPL Member
there are 2 kind of canadians …
1. the old geezer who hauled 80lbs in his wooden framed pack through arctic snowstorms, build a cabin with his axe instead of a tent, etc … who am i to tell him differently … he's alive and active at like 80 !!!
2. yuppies … theyre everywehre in canada, if you dont wear their favorite piece of dead bird gear, yr nothing but a homeless vancouver bum … dont use a north face expedition tent? … well yr just a random marmot to be squashed …
canucks are gear whores … we have nothing else to do in the winter … and you no that all that overpriced UL gear wont survive our extreme canadian summers anyways dontcha ;)Nov 27, 2010 at 5:00 pm #1668452
Mark HudsonBPL Member
@vesteroidLocale: Eastern Sierras
I read the entire thread, all I can say is its hard to win folks over to a different point of view, while swinging a baseball bat.Dec 3, 2010 at 1:13 pm #1670530
I gather from this thread that some people prefer to stay with older, more traditional, heavier gear. So what?
Hike you own hike and let them hike theirs. I value this forum for its insight into useful, lighter gear, and I have learned a lot that is useful. However, neither lightweight hiking or traditional (heavier) hiking is an article of religious faith. I can't remember when I wasn't interested in lightweight alternatives.
I am often somewhat of a hybrid. Occasionally my trips are work related, and that translates to heavy, simply because I must carry more stuff. On the other hand, my tent, bag, stove are lightweight. It is nice to go on pleasure trips where everything can be lightweight.
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