Westcomb Kokanee Initial Review

Eric,
I was hoping you would review this jacket, so thank you very much!

I find this jacket very appealing as it looks like a full-featured, lightweight, belay jacket suitable for 3 seasons and mild winter use that (given your review) edges out the other offerings in its class.

Unlike the FF Helios, it has appears appropriately sized for a belay piece and its hood is meant for a helmet.

The MB Alpine Light parka is pretty low on the amount of down fill, and so I'd expect the Westcomb to be warmer.

I think you're absolutely correct- it is in the same class as the WM Meltdown, which is an insanely puffy coat for the weight, is just as expensive, but has a rather disappointing hood. It's fabric should prove to be more durable however. The new RAB Infinity also looks like a competitive item, but I have no idea if the hood is helmet compatible.

I've been looking for an ultralight late-fall/ mild winter belay jacket that goes past my waist and has a usable hood that accommodates a helmet… this looks perfect. I'd likely be wary of using it for ice climbing, given the thin shell, but I do wonder if it would compete with my DAS for warmth at much less weight.

dont forget to post in the gear-review section of the website! looks incredibly warm..

tried on one of these a few weeks ago and was impressed – my thought is that for ice, or the ocashional cold rocky belay or summer bivy it would be the ticket.
the hood was disappointing though, seemed like a nod to the downtown crowd as it was much thinner (more like a MB alpine light in thickness). The Kokanee seemed like more of an unbaffled winter jacket.

the hood isnt the puffiest in the world … im not too worried about that as having ear muffs, a beanie and a helmet on usually keeps the head very warm … for those not wearing helmet all the time (are there such people?) … you might want something with a thicker hood

as to the hood size … i can pull the hood over my Petzl Altios helmet which is rather high profile … this i with a cap 4, marmot 200 wt fleece, gamma sv hoodie all together

for a person looking for a winter backpacking jacket, i think that something from montbell, FF, EB FA would probably be a bit better of a deal

the MB alpine light may not be as warm buy its cheaper and lighter (and you could still get an ex light for the same price) , conversely the new MB frostline or MEC Reflex are a 1/2 pound heavier but warmer and cheaper as well

for those that need the double zip and helmet compatable hood though … i cant find anything else … i plan to wear it as a second belay jacket under my OR chaos on REALLY cold days …

Eric,

Very nice review… thank you!

Per your request, the Iclo on the OR Chaos is 3.11and the Westcomb Kokanee is 3.22. Assuming you have a nominal air gap of at least 1/4" between the two insulation pieces, the combined Iclo is 6.33. This jacket combo and a 1 clo base layer ensemble will keep you camp chores thermo-neutral at ~-7F.

thanks richard … thats around the range i expected combined, somewhere along the lines of a MB permarfrost to a NB fugu

interesting that there are quite a few jackets with the same iclo but cheaper and lighter … brooks range anarok, WM Flight, FF Hyperion, etc …

i like westcomb, but they are definitely premium price … a la dead bird with more function but less yuppie branding

it does look so much better than any of those though ;)

just to update

westcomb would not divulge the amount of down in this jacket … unless that number pops up a comparison between other jackets is kind of hard …

thanks

Hi Eric, both the Kokanee and the Chilko are 850+ down fill. We don't advertise the fill weight because it is difficult to compare our light & warm Hutterite down with other down that may be bulky and/or have a higher feather vs down ratio. For more information on that please visit the FAQ on our website: http://www.westcomb.com/content/FAQ/13#faq159 . Thanks for the interest!

I have tried on this jacket side by side with the MB Light Alpine; The Westcomb definetly has more fill.

Have taken the westcomb backcountry skiing and no issues wacking branches and what not,

The cut is for full size guys, which is nice, Montbell and some other brands tend to be cut for thinner folks.

How does it compare to the Patagonia Fitz Roy?

no one knows since westcomb wont give the amount of down in it …

Eric, in how cold of temperatures can this thing hold up.

i havent had the chance to take it below that …

you may not have the same insulating flab i do though ;)

I don't know how well this jacket has fared in the field but The Clymb is selling Xl and XXL sizes for $195 right now

Just a question: are you sure the 850 FP is measured according EU-methods ? Because the down has a European origin doesn't mean the FP is measured according EU-methods.

yes ,,,

the down is CANADIAN hutterite down from alberta

Hutterite down, produced in the Hutterite communities of Alberta, Canada, is collected from mature Embden geese raised outdoors. The down is twice soap cleaned rather than chemically cleaned (which does less damage to the down), and is twice sorted, making Hutterite down 90% to 95% down and only 5% to 10% small feather.

Geese that grow up outdoors in colder climates produce more down to keep themselves warm. The best quality down comes from mature geese, where the clusters are fully formed and able to trap the maximum amount of air to keep you warm. Since a large amount of natural lanolin is left behind in the cleaning process, Westcomb claims that Hutterite down is naturally water repellent without the need for chemical treatment. The actual extent of this water repellency remains in question.

http://www.thegearcaster.com/the_gearcaster/2013/01/westcomb-hutterite-down-collection.html

the down is tested and meets EU "class 1" standards

http://www.idfl.com/media/pdfs/news/IDFL%20News%2048.pdf

BPL reviews the chilko which uses the same fill and said

The Chilko’s shell and lining are the new 0.8 oz/yd2 (27 g/m2) Pertex Quantum ripstop nylon with DWR, which is 20% lighter and has the same tear strength as the “old” Quantum. The insulation is 850 EU fill power (884 fill-power by the US measurement method) Canadian Hutterite down, which is claimed to be 100% down (less than 1% feathers).

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/westcomb_chilko_down_sweater_review.html

as a note westcomb is moving from 850 to 900 fill which is why all the down is being cleared out, mostly in the L/XL … they had 100$ Kokanees at the factory sale last month … my fellow entrepreneurial AZNs were walking out with armloads of em for friends and families, or resale

i thought about buying a ton and selling em on BPL, but i didnt have the heart to mark it up enough for it to be worth my while and to tie up a few grand in cash … maybe thats why im a poor AZN

i did buy some as xmas gifts however …

generally the construction and materials of westcomb products is top notch, all made in vancouver canada …

however they still wont say how much down is in the jacket … they are very much a lifestyle brand IMO … you buy it because you want quality CANADIAN made gear that works … not because its the lightest or makes sense financially

;)

Interesting.

Now, a few remarks:

"The insulation is 850 EU fill power (884 fill-power by the US measurement method)"

This conversion seems a bit low. Based on claims of other brands, 903 to 915 seems more in line.

"however they still wont say how much down is in the jacket"

Now, they don't give figures; however I found for the Kokanee (the new 900 FP version) a temperature of -5 °C (or 23 °F) which would seem something of 5,5 to 6 oz. .

del

tom …

BPL write the article, they can probably answer if they did their own conversion or use a number from westcomb …

at that range though i doubt it makes much of a difference in real life use with humidity and all …

as to the fill weight … no one knows

im generally a big fan of westcomb … you get better than dead bird/patagucci quality IMO with top notch materials while it still made in vancouver, BC … IMO if you pay $$$$ for something it might as well be made locally

however i think they are afraid to be compared on their performance and value alone … they refuse to give me the down weight, years ago one employee said "well we dont want people to go compare our down weight against some cheaper brand" …

fortunately at the factory sale prices i really dont care … $100 is a smoking deal for any puffy that size

one side note is that just because a jacket is "850 fill" doesnt mean is that its warmer than a "650 fill" one … i purchased a kokanee for a female friend at the sale … she also has a MH sub zero parka … im not sure which has more fill, but i expected the kokanee to be warmer as the fill quality is substantially better

however this is not the case

– the kokanee has a substantially larger fit for the same size, which means more air gaps to heat up … snugger fit means warmer
– the MH has a bit of a thicker shell layer, surprisingly this makes a difference on windy days, both i believe are sewn through
– the "850 fill down" in reality isnt a ton warmer than the lower quality fill in our humid PNW … humidity even when its not raining doesnt allow the full fill potential to be used IMO

so bottom line? … in her particular case the the fill power advantage was overcome by other factors … just goes to show you that other things matter other than fill power

;)

Hi Eric,
you're wright that the precise conversion doesn't matter that much, and like you said there are other factors.

I follow now Westcomb for quite a few years and they're often on my list. However, their distribution in Europe is pretty non-existent.

one of my climbing partners tried washing her kokanee in a front loading machine on delicate in a laundry bag … now this is against the tag which says "must be professionally cleaned"

basically the pocket on the jacket tore apart, and down flew all over the place

the westcomb kokanee CANNOT be washed by yourself … you MUST send it in to get in cleaned profesionally

this is a very delicate jacket

there are many other jackets out there that might weight slightly more but will last much longer and you dont have to baby all the time

;)