sleeping bags and down clothes question

simple answer … get yr self a 30F deg bag and dont worry about it … the difference in weight between a good 30F vs. 40F deg bag is minimal

youll be carrying a light down/syn sweater anyways … if there's a freak cold snap put that and all yr other clothing in/on top of yr bag

get yr wife a bag rated 10F+ more than yrs as women sleep colder in general … so a 20F bag … and get her a light down/syn jacket too

you arent going to hike in yr insulating jackets but use them for stops/camp

unless u sleep really cold … then get a warmer bag … lol

Mark, Eric is right and I think you are over thinking things- You need a good insulating layer for around camp and a good bag. You can combine them both when things get colder. There is no need to carry a double set of insulating clothing. Just for full disclosure I have a Western Mountaineering Summerlite 30* bag for sale right now on the Gear Swap (Brand New)
Summerlite

one more point …

if you do plan on doing 3 season camping at colder places in the americas i do recommend you spend the extra money and get a 15-20 F bag …

30F is fine for warmer areas … for places at elevation or farther north, youll want 20F

the weight difference is likely around 8-12 oz

Here's an example of what I used on an early September trip to Lake Aloha in the Desolation Wilderness

Mountain Hardware Phantom 32* bag
Longsleeve synthetic T-shirt
Patagonia R1 Jacket (my dad carried a Montbell U.L. Jacket)
Fleece Balaclava
Lightweight glove liners
Patagonia Capilene 2 bottoms
Nylon Hiking Pants
North Face Diad – Rain jacket

I hiked in the long sleeve shirt and hiking pants. Pushed up the sleeves when I got warm. Nearing sunset it got cold at camp and I added my R1 and my rain jacket to cut the wind. My dad did not require a wind shell because his Montbell kept enough of the wind at bay. I did not overheat in this setup as I was not moving very much. I later added the balaclava to the mix as we stayed up watching the stars come out.

I slept in my boxers, the balaclava, and my long sleeve shirt that night and was neither too hot nor too cold in my bag. If the temps were much colder i could have begun adding layers to increase the temperature range of my bag. I would have started with the R1 and the Capilene bottoms and a pair of socks. If I was still cold after that, then I would know that i need to change something on the next trip or that it was just a fluke temperature dip that is to be expected every once and a while.

Many ultralight backpackers get up before dawn when it is the coldest and begin hiking. Your body temperature during exertion is the best way to keep warm.

So from a total gear perspective my question is, why do I want to use the down clothes and get a warmer bag?…I would be carrying clothes I wont use.

You would not want to carry insulating clothes only for sleeping in. What you want to do is utilize whatever clothes you are already carrying to supplement your bag, so that you don't need as warm of a bag.

Lets say you buy a sleeping bag rated to 40F. If you go on a summer trip with expected lows in the 40-50F range, you probably wouldn't bring much in the way of insulating clothing, but you also wouldn't need any to supplement your sleeping bag because the bag is warm enough for the expected lows.

A few weeks later you go on a trip with expected lows around 30F. Your 40F bag will not be warm enough for this on it's own, but on a trip this cold you are definitely going to be carrying a few warm layers to wear around camp. If you wear those layers around camp AND to bed, then your 40F sleeping bag should keep you warm to down to the expected lows.

2 months later you go on another trip with lows expected around 20F. This is pretty darn cold so you are going to bring along your down parka, fleece jacket and insulated pants. Since you have these items along anyways, you can continue to utilize them as part of your sleep system to stay warm down to 20F in your 40F bag. The traditional hiker would have carried a 20F bag weighing double all all these trips and left their insulating clothing packed away at night.

Admittedly, stretching a 40F bag down to 20F is big change and it's not something you should take lightly. A more realistic scenario is using a 30F bag for conditions from 20F and up. My example was pretty radical, but hopefully I've explained the concept.

Another bonus is that when you wake up in the morning you are already wearing your warm clothes so it's not as painful to get out of bed on a cold morning.

My sleep system using my ~30F sleeping quilt:

40F – Just the 30F quilt
30F – Quilt + thin down jacket
20F – Quilt + thin down jacket + down pants + down vest
15F – Quilt + thick winter parka + down pants + down booties

In all those cases, the insulating clothing I'm wearing bed is also all the insulating I'm carrying, except for the 40F scenario where I do probably have my down vest along but I don't wear it to bed.

ok, thanks I see the examples

One more point I dont get for sure however.

Dan from reading your post it seems like using the insulating layers to suppliment your bag that you are already carrying..seems to suggest to me that you can wear these layers while hiking as well as in your bag….thats the part that confuses me as I thought I had read you never wanted to sweat in the clothes you would be wearing in your bag?

Dan from reading your post it seems like using the insulating layers to supplement your bag that you are already carrying..seems to suggest to me that you can wear these layers while hiking as well as in your bag…I thought I had read you never wanted to sweat in the clothes you would be wearing in your bag?

I normally don't wear these insulating layers when I'm hiking. When I am hiking I am generating quite a bit of heat so I normally hike in just a hiking shirt or hiking shirt + windshirt. The insulating layers I am carrying (ie. down jacket) are mostly used for staying warm around camp and at rest stops.

Even if I am wearing some of the insulating layers when hiking on a cold trip, I am hopefully not getting them sweaty because if I am sweating I am wearing too much clothes so I would adjust my layering to avoid this. If I do sweat, the first thing to get damp will be my hiking shirt and it's pretty easy to adjust to this situation and take off your down jacket before the down jacket is significantly soaked in sweat.

If my hiking shirt is sweaty I would not wear it to bed. I normally put clean clothes on before bed (hiking shirt, socks, underwear) and wear those to bed in combination with whatever insulation is needed. If I don't have clean clothes then I'd just wear the insulation. When I wake up the next morning I keep that shirt/socks/underwear on for the coming day and then I change again that night.

Mark,
Dan summarized this perfectly. For the Sierras I have used a 20 degree quilt (Golite UL-20)year round. Some may argue that this is the same as a 30 degree bag so I may use the exact same setup as described. In addition to clothes you can also supplement your bag with a bivy or liner to go even lower that what Dan has listed.

Got it guys thanks.

if yr think youll be cold hiking and need insulation … bring a light fleece or synthetic vest

fleece aint light … but its breathable and dries quick when you soak it with sweat

you can wear that to sleep as well for some warmth

Dan, you did bust that out well.

I agree completely- esp the part when you said that the 40 deg is a more extreme example. I do the same. I'll sleep in my rain pants and shirt in my 40deg bag when it gets chilly- Ghetto VBL

Get a good 30 F. bag and also carry a light synthetic fill or down jacket for around camp and in your bag on unusually cold nights.

I experienced 28 F. and 24 F.nights on a PCT hike to Olancha Peak in AUGUST of 2009 for cryin' out loud. And that's in the southern Sierra Nevada.

I have a WM Megalite true 30 F.down bag and was OK when I wore my pants, hiking sox, 2 synthetic T shirts and a 200 weight Polartec fleece vest. But in the morning of the 24 F. night we hiked down the high valley into 16 F. (!!) temps. I'd have LOVED to have my Eddie Bauer down sweater at that time.