My turn to submit a gear list!

For a solo for three days, you ought to be able to get a lighter bear canister.

If you want small, light, and cheap, I suggest the Bear Boxer.

–B.G.–

I think it's a good list. The things that jump out to me:

29.5oz Osprey Talon 30L: certainly not too heavy if the pack fits right for you, but it is a place where you could lose 10 – 15 oz IF you wanted to go to a frameless pack. That should be doable for 3 days even with the weight you have now.

47.9oz MH Phantom bag: again, you could find a lighter-though-equally-rated bag, but I'm not sure it would be worth the high price you might have to pay to get something different.

4.6oz Evernew 1.3L Pot: you aren't going to lose more than 1-2 oz but this pot seems a little big for solo trips.

5.6oz Kleen Kanteen: you mention the need for a hot water bottle, but a plastic nalgene-type bottle might work too at a lower weight (I have two 16-oz bottles at 3.70 oz and 4.20 oz, although I don't carry them anymore).

3.6oz Platypus 2.5L bladder with hose: could go to 2 1L plastic water bottles (like aquafina, etc). This would require a change from drinking with a hose.

2.1 Sea-to-Summit Ultrasil sack: do you need a daypack?

0.4 Wrist Road ID: I carry a shoe-ID when I run, but not sure you need it here, especially since you already carry your drivers license.

8.1 Komperdell Pole: you only carry 1 pole. If you only use it for setting up your tarptent, then maybe get a tent pole to use instead. If you use it for hiking too, there are a few lighter poles, like TiGoat's and Gossamer Gears (but once again, you'd have to decide if spending the money was worth the few ounces).

– Is your Phantom 15 really 47.9oz? Mountain Hardware lists the wmns Phantom 15 at 32oz.

– It's expensive, but you could replace your TT Squall with a cuben Zpacks Hexamid Duo with a sewn in floor. That would save 10oz.

– It seems like you could replace your 9.7oz fleece, 6.8oz down sweater and 3.2oz angora sweater with just one or two warmer pieces. You're carrying 20oz here for just upper body insulation which is a lot. It's more efficient to have 1 or 2 warmer pieces because most of the garments weight in the shells fabrics and zippers etc. Maybe just go with the one light insulation layer that you can wear while hiking and then another toasty layer like a WM Flight vest that you can wear to say toasty around camp. You should be able to accomplish the same amount of warmth for less weight by going to 2 pieces of insulation instead of 3.

– You're counting your 5oz of consumables (Esbit tabs) on your gearlist which makes your base weight higher than it really is.

– I dunno about the Kleen Kanteen. 5.6oz is a lot of weight for what you're getting. You'd be better off with a 1oz mug that is your mug and 'water scooper', a 0.5oz mirror for signaling and then spend the other 4oz on permanent insulation instead of a hot water bottle. 4oz more down would keep you warmer with less hassle than a water bottle at your feet IMO.

You've got a lot weight in insulation here, which I understand because you are a cold sleeper. The trick is to get the most bang for your weight, which is accomplished by carrying fewer but warmer pieces. Instead of your hot water bottle and all those insulating layers, maybe you should just invest in a Western Mountaineering Antelope bag. This is rated to 5F and weighs 37oz in a 5'6" model. If you got one of these you could ditch your 48oz 15F rated bag, your hot water bottle and probably one of your layers of insulation. It could save you 2 lbs.

Your list looks pretty good to me.

Unfortunately clothes do weigh a ton. I'm not really one to talk because I love wearing my 260g merino sweater, and not sure which Montbell you have, but why not just bring something like the MB Alpine Lt Parka 12.7 oz(I think I saw one for $120 somewhere..campsaver). Then you can forget about the fleece, your lt. down jacket and even one your toque/cozy.

Not sure if that would be warm enough for you.

You could make a cozy out of windscreen sun reflector (reflectix and reflectix tape from Home Depot). It may not be much of a weight savings, but likely work better and you can use in bear country.

What about using a widemouth Nalgenee (50% off right now at Nalgene) for a water scooper, storage and hot water bottle. Think it's only 2.5 oz. I believe it can withstand very hot water. I just bought one and am thinking of putting a bandana over the mouth to filter/collect water. Not sure how that will work because of the flexible body.

Not sure what type of cooking you do, but maybe a smaller pot. Like a Snow peak 900 or smaller and freezer bag cooking. That way you have a water left over for tea while waiting for the FBC. I haven't tried it yet but I know the reflectix cozy works awesome with pots.

Not sure if you're already doing this, but food weighs a ton. You didn't mention food, but if you save weight here you could bring more clothes. I've found that my $45 Nesco 75 something or other dehydrator was indispensible.

A huge dehydrated beef stew with potatoes and carrot, instant rice or quinoa, weighs way far less than any snack bars, trail mix (weighs a ton), and even oatmeal. It especially makes a great breakfast and dinner. Ground beef is super easy to dehydrate for extra meat in stew, pasta etc. Hearty meal to keep you warm.

You've probably thought of all this though, your list is pretty tight as far as my knowledge extends.

Great ideas so far.

I had no idea I could save so much $ by going to a frameless pack. I do know that I need a waist belt and padded shoulders for anything over ~10 pounds; I'm just a wuss that way. Shoulders hurt. In fact, I originally bought the Osprey to replace a (frameless) daypack for walking home with groceries. The belt/padded shoulders on the Osprey made all the difference in carry comfort.

So, are there frameless packs with padded shoulders and a real hipbelt?

– Elizabeth

why's yr phantom so heavy?

the new 800 fill 15F ones are 32 oz

as you can see moving to a SUL pack, getting lighter bag with the same temp rating and going to a single tarp (no bivy) setup saves the most weight and are the most cost effective

other than that you dont get too much lighter without giving up some of your "comfort" misc items

you can download my spreadsheet and change the stuff

https://spreadsheets0.google.com/ccc?key=teHiCf4q_vfzsUMKEiSImXg&hl

Just re-weighed my Phantom, it's 33.2 oz. No idea how I was so far off the first time! (I have an excellent postal scale.)

So, between the Esbit fuel (which apparently doesn't count as base weight) and the Phantom adjustment, I've lost 19.7 oz. already! Keep going, gentlemen.

– Elizabeth

u do realize yr not any lighter …

it's all jedi mind tricks ;)

You could probably go frameless pack no problem. I found anything under twenty and you really don't even need the waist belt if you're hiking around 10 miles or less.

That is unless you have shoulder injuries.

The big mesh pockets in the front and side pockets in most UL packs are really really useful. I ended up with an MLD Burn, but I'd like to try an ULA Ohm and had thought of a Gossamer Gear Gorilla which you may like. The last two may be more suitable for your transition. With frame it isn't much of a weight savings, but it would be sans frame.

These 3 seem to be the most popular right now, so re-selling after the return date shouldn't be a problem.

Note the Burn doesn't have much of a hipbelt stock, but you can get an upgrade (then non-returnable) and the Gorilla has extra wide shoulder straps which may or may not work for you. I like tall and narrow, which these 3 are.

The Ohm would be a great size for any treks to South America.

I use a .7 oz Rubbermaid Twist & Seal plastic bowl (16 oz size) without a lid as my mug.

A 24 oz size Heineken keg pot is around 1.3 oz, but there's the issues of how it will work with the Esbit stove (I don't know), and the can liner BPA controversy.

I have the Gorilla pack (size M, L belt). It's about 21 oz if you remove the frame (very easy), and it comes with a Sitpad as the back padding (easily removable). The flexibility of easily adding a frame is nice, but I think I'd prefer a lighter frameless pack like the MLD Burn or even Newt.

I'd carry these on-person only because they'd be critical if separated from your pack:
compass
map
Bic
light
knife
add a pealess whistle
ID
wallet
car key

Maybe check out the Granite Gear Virga at 19oz (and could probably be modified). My first lightweight pack was the GG Vapor Trail (which I kept even though I mostly use a MLD Exodus) and it looks on the GG website that the shoulder straps have the same thick padding as that pack. The waist belt is just a webbing strap (I think) but at least you'd get the padded shoulder straps.

Campsaver has them with a 20% discount.

This is all fantastic.

Bob: I see the smaller Bear Boxer would save me about a pound over the Garcia. Anyone here tried both? What is the real difference in capacity/# of days of food? And how about quality?

Steven: Are there really two bottles out there that could carry a total of 2.5 liters and that would weigh significantly less than my Platypus setup with tube at 3.6 ounces?

I probably don't need that daypack and the wrist ID, no.

Dan, I will try two layers instead of three. I have lots of variants to play with, as I have several midlayers at home and a warmer lightweight down jacket.

Scott, glad you mention FOOD. I am working on paring that down, too. I do have a dehydrator, want to expand from fruits & vegetables to other core items such as rice and quinoa. I never thought of trying to do ground beef. I think my food is much too heavy overall.

Eric, your chart is super useful. You got me looking at the Zpacks and the MLD sites. I've hiked in a Duomid quite a bit (it belongs to a friend), really like it. If I do buy any new shelter, though, I'd like to get one that does not require any trekking poles. My current Squall is ideal for me, in that it comes with a pole that I can use when I'm bikepacking, but when I'm backpacking I can leave that tent pole behind and use my trekking pole instead. I'd like to preserve that kind of setup. Come to think of it, the bikepacking part has me wondering if I should get a tarp – cuz I can't bring the bike in the tent with me!

Scott – Why would the Ohm be great for international travel?

What are the considerations for a woman getting a *frameless* pack? I have a very short torso, broader than average female shoulders, a back that gets very sore if I can't transfer most of the weight from shoulders to hip, and hip bones that portrude and can get irritated by an unpadded hipbelt. So, I've been skeptical about frameless packs and their skimpy support…Unless someone has a specific pack in mind that addresses these issues.

Andy – The Gorilla sounds really nice by all accounts. Why do you want a different pack? (Oh, I see…Gorilla is not the lightest.) And how do you carry that whole list of stuff on your person? I do see your point. But I don't hike in pants, and my shirts are pocketless and fragile, so I don't have multiple cargo pockets to stuff things into. Do you wear a lanyard around the neck to carry some of it?

– Elizabeth

"Bob: I see the smaller Bear Boxer would save me about a pound over the Garcia. Anyone here tried both? What is the real difference in capacity/# of days of food? And how about quality?"

Yes, I have an old standard Garcia, and I squeezed 8 person days of food into it one time, but it was a stretch.

I have a small BearVault (much lighter) and I squeezed 5 person days of food into it once.

I have the small Bear Boxer, and it is good for only about 3 or 4 person days. But, it is much smaller and lighter.

Take your pick.

–B.G.–

One issue you might run into with frameless packs is that most rely on a folded or rolled sleeping pad for their support and weight transfer to the hips. It seems like it might be quite a bit of "fiddling" to get the pad inflation just right for comfort.

Exactly, I'm looking at other packs to save even more weight. The ULA Ohm is similar to the Gorilla, but I'm not sure how easily the Ohm frame removes. The best approach might be to order 2-3 packs, try them out in the house loaded with your gear, and return the ones you don't want. Even I didn't follow my own advice though!

I didn't realize you didn't have any pockets. I'm not sure I could make it without any pockets! :) I always have pockets, even with shorts, so carrying all of that on-person is easy. I sometimes carry things on a lanyard, but I don't usually like to have something hanging around my neck. Runner's arm packs or something like that might be an option. Maybe you could just carry a whistle, photon, and tiny button compass on a lanyard? The compass could be epoxied to the whistle. There are also compasses on wristbands and ones which clip onto watchbands. Watch out for metals on the watch or lanyard affecting the compass reading.

Funny, I haven't really tried dehydrating fruits or even beef jerky. I've just done ground beef and a stew.

Ground beef is super super easy and re-hydrates well. Google mini-bull designs, youtube and look through his videos. Get the leanest meat you can find and paper towel off all the fat you can.

I was surprised how well the stew turned out though. It was delicious and hearty. 5-6 lbs of raw material became way less than a pound (guess).

Slow cooked it using a recipe from "cooking for dummies". Throw everything in a pot, get it boiling for a minute, reduce heat to simmer and leave for 8 hours.

Then you separate the vegetables (baby carrots, and potatoes) from the meat and sauce. Cut all into smaller even sized pieces (no need to go too small, just even size).

Dehydrate the meat separately (higher heat). The vegetables and sauce (on a fruit roll up tray) can be done together at a lower temp. Once dry, peel the sauce leather off, throw it in a blender and grind into powder. You can do spaghetti sauce the same way.

If I can do it anyone can.

I'm going to try putting meal portions in freezer bags and doing it that way. No dishes to wash, less food smells.

Dehydrated food was so much lighter, less bulky and satisfying than cliff bars, or trail mix (though I like nuts) etc. Never again. The exception being snickers bars or sweet valley salty and sweet bars (don't care the weight when they're that delicious).

Uncle Ben's or any instant rice is very light and a good filler.

What I do is bring instant rice, ground beef, stew, whole wheat rotini and dehydrated spaghetti sauce and mix and match depending on how hungry I am. The stew sauce can go in the spaghetti sauce, carrots from stew in spaghetti with meat sauce, rice with ground beef or in stew (delicious) etc.

Not gourmet by any means, it might end up all tasting the same, and I always invariably crave fried chicken and biscuits, or pepperoni pizza, but it does the trick.

I'm just starting out so there's lots I have to figure out with food (like cooking fish). Though I love comfort food. Sarah and Laurie on the food forum are really nice, they'd answer better any ideas/questions you had.

About the Ohm, I just figure it's a good size.

I just need something a bit bigger than my Burn for an mixed activities overseas trip where I'll be going through towns etc, hostels w/some trekking thrown in. Like I said, those mesh pockets can hold a lot and are really handy. Also having a narrow, thin profile pack helps when navigating crowded streets, buses etc.

I have pockets but hate using them, I just throw everything I need for the day into the back mesh pocket. Hip belt pockets would be a bonus.

Keep in mind though, IMHO, unless it's a substantial weight savings (Zpacks Blast for example), and provided your current pack is comfortable, I'd just keep it. 29 oz isn't that bad. I've found frameless packs comfortable and no problem to use, but you may be different. Tress for the forest kinda thing.

Elizabeth,

Have you tried a different sleeping pad? I wonder if your pad might be part of the reason you are such a cold sleeper. You could try supplementing it with a CCF pad like a GG Thinlight or Thermarest Ridgerest. If that helps keep you warmer, you could eventually go to a Down Air Mat such as a Kooka-Bay that would be lighter and more compact than the combo.

Good suggestion, Bradford. Down mats seem to have their own heat source compared to other pads! I have the Exped full-length for winter. It's warm, comfy, and durable, but also heavy at 2 lbs. The Kooka-Bays are lighter.

The sleeping pad I have (POE Ether Thermo) already represents an upgrade in both comfort and warmth, from what I had earlier. Earlier, in an effort to go ultralite I used a Zrest, and then just the GG torso pad by itself! And I slept cold at night.

The POE pad is both warmer and more comfy. One time when I had to leave it home because it developed a puncture, I went back to the Zlite and my entire underside felt noticeably colder.

Sometimes I supplement the POE with a 1/8 thinlight pad.

With or without the thinlight pad, the POE has definitely made me warmer, and depending on the night temp, sometimes I can go now without the hot water bottle or the full set of clothing.

– Elizabeth

Yes, my current 29 oz. for a pack is a reasonably good weight, and for that I also get the nice comfort and the of an Osprey pack.

However, I'd consider trying out one of the *much* lighter, frameless packs as a summer weekender option. So not something like the Gorilla (which is only a few ounces lighter than my pack), but even more minimalist. Something with 2000 c.i./30 liters is fine; that's the size of my Osprey anyway. I'd buy it off the gear trade here, rather than new. If I hate it I just re-sell it!

– Elizabeth

Another thing –

I've been thinking of switching to a Ti-Tri or Sidewinder stove. This would make travel easier – both alcohol and wood are easier to procure than Esbit tabs – and I figure it would also reduce the high cost of relying 100% on Esbit fuel.

Do you think this would add weight/bulk, or subtract weight/bulk, from my current setup?

This assumes I keep my 1.3L pot, and have have the Ti-Tri made for that.

– Elizabeth

it wont make yr stove any lighter … lol

but it will give you a lot of options and likely save on fuel on longer trips providing you can burn wood

ive been considering that kind of setup myself just for the fuel savings

I noticed the fleece hoody (~9oz) that you carry but no mention of any warm hat or balaclava. I carry one to use at camp and when sleeping to greatly increase my comfort range. Remember, a lot of your heat escapes from your noggin'. I'd say either get a thick balaclava or a down bomber hat if you're that cold of a sleeper. You mention wanting a single kit for both solo and partnered trips. I'll always carry more solo than when hiking with a partner. Depending on the type of hiking partner you have you could consider sharing a quilt between the two of you which could keep you warm by snuggling too! Although this method only really works for couples.

I quickly browsed the responses so far so I apologize if it has already been mentioned.

Yup. When on non-bear-country hikes, I wear to bed the same thick fleece cap that serves as a pot cozy.

When in bear country I use the fleece cap only as a pot cozy, and for my head I have an extremely warm angora hat. It's so warm I sometimes just tear it off my head at night.

I might take someone's suggestion to just bring one hat for my head and make a dedicated pot cozy out of reflective material.

I've taken a thin, 1.5-oz. balaclava on some colder trips, but never have had to wear it, so it got left off the list. The angora cap and angora neckwarmer are enough by themselves.

In fact, I highly recommend the angora for cold sleepers! Supposedly, it's 7x warmer than sheep's wool, per weight. It is exponentially warmer than my wool stuff. Similar to down. And very light. Surprised it never gets mentioned on this site. It can be found for cheap on Ebay or in thrift stores.

– Elizabeth

I have a bare Boxer 101 and can fit 3 days food + other smell items, you could save a pound for not to much $$. You might want to look at Kooka Bay DAM. I have a syn fill at R4 weighing 13 ounces. A DAM may insulate you enough to drop extra clothing at little weight gain of your current pad. I was not happy with frameless packs and used a Osprey Exos 34 until I tried a Aarn pack. I don't care for weight on my shoulders. You may be the same way, if so keep your comfortable pack.