Backpacking Light Vapr Bivy Sack

I hope November 29th is a typo.

Hi Sam,

Are full specs (weight for size large, length, girth, fabrics used) or pricing available yet for the new bivy?

While I feel pretty confident that it will be a great product, it's hard to tell whether it will fit my needs since there is so little available info at the moment.

Thanks,

-David

Hi Sam, Some of us older folks require thicker padding underneath, so please include a measure of how thick the bivy is so we know whether it will restrict the loft of our bag on a thick pad. Thanks!

These are all legit questions and I will be able to get to them soon. The dates posted above are not typos.

October 28th and 29th – Available to Lifetime Members
November 29th – Available to members and the general public

Are you going to have a similar large gap between life time members and just ordinary money paying members for the Hane fishing kits?

4 weeks…odds are there won't be any left.

Access to BPL products before the general public is one of the promised benefits of being a Member. From the membership purchase page: "Members receive…first rights to initial production lots".

Technically what is promised to Members is that they will have 'first rights' to new products, so even allowing MLIFE'ers access before Members is a violation of this. Now it's gone a step further and Members aren't just second in line, they are at the back with the general public. MLIFE'ers will be camping in the woods with their new bivy's before Members are even allowed to order them.

If you want to introduce a new group above Member, the right way to do it is to add new benefits for this higher paying group (ie. the 'Ask an Expert' forum which apparently hasn't happened) rather than to take away benefits from current Members and give them only to MLIFE'ers.

This particular instance isn't a big concern to me as I'm not a bivy user, I just don't like to see Members losing their privileges that they paid for.

We will only be offering a small percentage of the product for sale to our Lifetime Members and the vast majority of the stock will be available for everyone else.

We will continue to offer BPL-branded products for sale to our Lifetime Members early, sometimes at discounted price, and sometimes with free shipping as that is part of what those individuals have signed up for.

We still appreciate the rest of our clientele, hold them in high regard, and plan to show them this respect through offering them the same products – just at a delay in the timeline.

Dan, good response. I agree with you whole heartedly. And putting all non life-time members with the general public is crap! I don't feel respected or appreciated. If backpackinglight wants to offer special goodies to their lifetime members, you need to still offer a tiered system where you're not hurting your regular members too.

Are you going to have a similar large gap with the Hane fishing kits?

"We will continue to offer BPL-branded products for sale to our Lifetime Members early…as that is part of what those individuals have signed up for. " – Sam H

The problem is that regular Members also paid good money for this same privilege. You can't sell front of line privileges to one group, if you're already sold it to another. You're taking away something Members paid for. You don't seem to recognize that BPL has also promised regular Members first access to new products.

Have a look at the 'Annual Subscription' page:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/subscribe.html

Under "Subscriber Benefits" is says:

"Members receive discounted pricing, first rights to initial production lots, and in some cases, exclusive access to custom equipment from partner manufacturers."

It seems unarguably clear that Members have paid for the right to be at the front of the line for new products. Denying them this is not fulfilling your commitment.

Part of what makes this so frustrating isn't just that Members have had their front of line privileges rescinded and re-sold, it's that they are being made to wait an unreasonably long time on top of this. If you guys are withholding the 'vast majority' of stock for general sale, why wait a full month extra to make it available? Give the front of line privilege holders (Members and MLIFE'ers) a few days to get their orders in, and then open the sale up to everyone. Members haven't just lost their right to be at the front of the line, they've been kicked all the way to the back of a very long line.

I imagine there would be a much bigger uproar about this, but few members have noticed this news buried way down in BPL News. I bet a new thread in the G Spot informing members that BPL is taking away their paid privileges would see a great deal of comments.

Do the right thing.

I imagine there would be a much bigger uproar about this, but few members have noticed this news buried way down in BPL News.

You are probably right, but I also suspect that when it comes to the BPL shop and product launches that many people have just given up and reached the shoulder shrugging stage :) It seems to be a real missed opportunity to me, but I don't really know what the objectives of BPLs owners are.

n/m – I'm getting too far off topic

I agree. Just not the right way to handle the situation:

1. If you want to change the terms fine, just communicate to your customers. Personally I think you have that responsibility.
2. It's obvious you don't value your regular members any higher than the free crowd. I have no problem with life members having greater benefits, but your statement to the regular members is we don't value you any more than the free.
3. It's not like the regular members are asking for an additional benefit, just what you have already agreed too.

Just really strange how you guys are handling this. I can't imagine it's your intent, so maybe you should rethink your decision.

Just my two cents. However I do agree with Jason and that I no longer wait on BPL gear. Too many other good options.

Brad

I agree with the above statements regarding the poor decision BPL has made about the timing of sale of the bivy to non lifetime members and the general public. Differentiation of benefits among member categories can make sense, but changing the benefits in mid-stream seems like marketing mentality has won over the desire to build a strong membership.

What else will we lose?

Hi Sam – I have payed for a membership INCLUDING the right to FIRST access for new products like the bivy.
If you are not going to honer my purchase please refund the balance of my membership fee and then CANCEL my membership.
I agree entirely with the above.

I also agree and I'm a MLife member.

nvm

I am not interested in the bivy but I fully agree with the concerns expressed by " members" on this topic.

…."Changing the policy for regular members without notice was dishonest, to say the least! If I had been aware of this before I renewed earlier this month, I would not have renewed!"…

I very much agree with Dan. You have demoted us regular members to the same status as the general public. This is not what we were told when we signed up and paid our money!

Changing the policy for regular members without notice was dishonest, to say the least! If I had been aware of this before I renewed earlier this month, I would not have renewed! Any chance I could get a refund?

If you must continue this policy, then give life members a week, then open sales to regular members as well, but do not open sales to the general public until after a month.

The big benefit for life members is that they save on dues over the long haul–they pay for five years' membership and after that it's all free. (For me, life membership wouldn't pay because at my age I'll probably be dead or at least unable to backpack five years down the road.) I'm not sure why life members need all these other benefits when they are already getting a big financial benefit, even more so if annual dues increase in the future.

BPL's attitude towards regular members is a slap in the face! I'm lucky most of their crap is over-rated and over- priced or I would have something to really be upset about!

They should realize that regardless of their rationalization or any legitimate reason, this has left a bad taste in people's mouths. Not to be dismissed.

It's all about how it comes across. Smacks of poor PR skills.
It doesn't really affect me as a non US citizen, as the shipping BPL charges for overseas orders means i hardly ever look at the gear.

Where is the BPL Staff reply?