Skurka’s Gear List and Commentary

I bought the Ibex Indie Hoody based on what he took with him and I have been very happy with it. I also bought the GoLite Tumalo Rain jacket and it has been great in that the XXL is long enough and not a tent. All the PU stuff is the same to me it seems so as long as it fits, has pit zips and is lightweight I am fine.

He was using it as a VBL, he sprayed the inside with silicone to stop it from breathing

Where does one find spray on silicone?

I don't think its Silicone persay, but mcNett makes a spray for waterproof fabrics that don't need to breath, tents, boat covers, packs etc.

Silicone lubricant?

I can't imagine trying to breathe around fabric with that stuff on it.

–B.G.–

I thought it was perhaps that it lacked sufficient hydrostatic head.

Robert, were did you find this information?

I'm fairly certain Andy used McNett Thundershield. He coated his jacket for VBL use as was mentioned above.

Very useful PDF, that is. Some interesting thoughts, and some unsurprising ones.

Not sure if it's the same thing, but Walmart has Atsko silicone spray for $4.

I am surprised that he only used a Solar Ridgerest for the winter.

Andrew Skurka used a treated GoLite Storm to make it non-breathable for his VBL layer and then used an untreated GoLite Storm as a shell jacket. You may notice the weights of the treated Storm are heavier.

Shell Jacket – GoLite Storm (untreated) – "Face fabric absorbed to much moister".

All things considered, it's an amazing public observation. Andrew Skurka is top notch in all regards.

I didn't get my outer material to take in too much water but maybe it was just me or maybe it does that over time.

you have to remember that he was out continuously for months … DWR wears out … would a good DWR wash have helped?

or maybe it just licks doggies … lol

Seems like I need to clarify what I did and what I thought about what I did — the space limitations on my gear list don’t allow for much nuance.

I used three GoLite Storm jackets.

The first was a production *sample*; it was mostly the same as the production model, except for not having pit zips. I treated the interior with McNett Thundershield, in an attempt to eliminate all breathability and thus make it a vapor barrier liner. (Read this article for more info on VBL’s: http://bit.ly/bUOICN.) I’m not sure how effective this was — it seemed like a lot of the silicone never absorbed into the fabric, even after trying to wipe it in and letting it dry. Maybe more silicone got into the fabric than I could see, not sure. Trying to hose down the exterior would have been more of a challenge, particularly with the Pertex fabric because of its thick shell fabric, which has a nice feel but which absorbs a lot of moisture.

The two other jackets were production models, and I didn’t treat those — I used them as rain gear. If I could have re-treated the jacket during the trip, I wouldn’t have needed two since there was nothing structurally wrong with the jacket — it was just that that the DWR coating had worn off and there was no hydrostatic head, so I got soaked whenever it rained. “Mom, send my other blue rain jacket.”

In general I’ve never been impressed with rain gear, especially on a long trip. It fails, period. The Pertex fabric is no different, except its heavy face fabric tends to absorb a lot of moisture — I think its weight skyrocketed to about double when it got wet, and then it got mildewy because it never had the opportunity to dry in some of the most prolonged wet storms.

GoLite is coming out with 2 slick rain jackets this Spring: a 6.5-oz minimalist jacket and a 10-oz fully featured one.

Thanks Andrew – it looks like there were assumptions made by
the posters on this thread and…both were actually correct.

"Golite is comin out with 2 slick rain jackets this spring"

Are those jackets gonna be better then the Tumalo? The 10-oz fully featured one is if i'm correct also gonna be made of Pertex Shield. (golite Kenai if i'm right)

interesting to know if something more durable like gore tex pro would have lasted longer

id hate to have down vests/sweater in a very long trip if my DWR goes on my rain jacket … hmmmm

I still like the jacket because it does what I need it to do and it is one of the few out there at that weight that fits.

On most of the rain jackets I've used, the waterproof/breathable membrane continues to keep me dry long after the DWR has failed. In order to get wet with a rain jkt you need both the DWR and membrane to fail. Generally I find any DWR fails pretty easily, but a good membrane should hold up.

What about 2-3 layer event? Some of those jackets are as tough as goretex stuff. Rab makes really good ones, the demand pullon is light. Do you not consider event because of your preference to use a rain jacket as a VBL if possible in super cold places?

It is not the Goretex or the eVent that is failing to perform.

It is the not-so-DWR that is failing in this case.

The membrane or coating under the face fabric (Gore-Tex, eVent, PU, etc.) won't have any effect on the durability of the DWR for expeditions (arbitrarily defined by me to be longer than two weeks). Fluorocarbon DWR's are the most durable but, sustained rain and/or abrasion will quickly negate their effectiveness. My average Alaska bushwhacking distance, in intermittent rain, averages about 60 miles before the DWR is no longer effective.

In most cases, a household dryer, iron, or hair dryer is needed to make the fluorocarbon tails stand back up and reactivate the DWR (reduced surface tension). An approximate 140F temp for about 15 minutes is needed. If this doesn’t work, more DWR needs to be applied and then heat treated. Wax and spray silicone treatments don’t need heat to activate them but are less than ½ as durable. Obviously while heat restoration is a viable solution for pedestrian rain gear use, they are not effective remedies for field DWR restoration.

There are two strategies to mitigate DWR failure on expeditions. The least effective one is to use conventional WPB rain gear with a polyester face fabric, rather than nylon, to reduce the weight gain. Polyester has approximately 1/10 the moisture regain of nylon. The most effective strategy is to use a synthetic Epic treated fabric for bushwhacking. This type of fabric can have the permanent DWR (integral surface tension reduction) field restored by just washing it without any need for a 140F activation temp.

Epic is not a panacea rain garment in that it has a lower hydrostatic head and it doesn't breathe as well as eVent. It is a viable expedition rain protection solution, when active, and can also be used as a wind shirt. It needs to be augmented with a truly waterproof rain jacket when inactive. For drizzle and light rain, combined with light bushwhacking, the Patagonia Houdini is a viable option. They call their DWR Deluge but when I looked at it under a microscope it has the same characteristics as the Epic fiber treatment. For drizzle to heavy rain and/or heavy bushwhacking, a PCU L4 or Wild Things wind shirt are effective. These have less breathability than the Houdini, a higher hydrostatic head, and much more abrasion resistance.

The US Special Forces have long unsupported field deployments and use a rain protection strategy the same as I outlined above (PCU L4 for activity plus un-breathable coated nylon for static use). The conventional US Forces typically have short unsupported field deployments and use conventional DWR treated WPB garments for both active and static rain protection.

in other words bring a silnylon rain poncho and an epic-like jacket for very long trips …

Dan,

You won't get wet from external moisture, with a WPB rain jacket, as a result of DWR failure. You will get wet from internal moisture as a result of DWR failure.