Oct 17, 2010 at 5:40 pm #1264495
Hey everyone :)
From what I've read about the Neo-Air, there have been a lot of people unhappy with the temperatures that they can take it down to.
My wife and I both have one and on two occasions have camped with them in 32-39f temperatures on damp ground. We were in a tent both times and use WM Ultralite bags but were still cold, even in wool socks, beanies and thermals.
We absolutely love the comfort of the pads but they just aren't suitable for cool temperatures for us.
It appears to me that we have two options?
Get a dedicated winter pad like a prolite+ (680g) with an r-value of 3.8 or get something like a z-lite (410g) to stick underneath when it will be cold making an r-value of 4.7 (both neo-air and z-lite add up to 820g.
Any opinions?Oct 17, 2010 at 6:40 pm #1655441
If you are just looking to add insulation, this gossamer gear pad seems to be a favorite:
They are lighter and less bulky than a z-rest.Oct 17, 2010 at 6:58 pm #1655446
3.8 seems borderline to me. For winter pads I'd go with the following in roughly the same order:
Pacific Outdoor Gear Hyper Elite
Kookabay custom down air mat
Exped down air mat
I have the first. I plan to get the latter. The last one is too heavy, although I'd consider the large & wide version if I wasn't carry it on my back.Oct 17, 2010 at 7:22 pm #1655453
I've been happy with my Kookabay pad for swing season, and they are custom made so you can get it however warm you want. Here is my current late fall / early spring setup:
Suluk46 1/4" 70"x20" 77g R0.9
Kookabay 2.5" 46"x20" 296g R4 (synthetic)
GG Nightlite .5" 10"x20" 45g R3.5
So I have R4.9 for my torso and R4.4 for my feet. This setup works well with a total weight 14.7oz.Oct 17, 2010 at 8:23 pm #1655474
Just get an el cheapo foam pad with an R value of ~2 and use it with the neo air … Shouldnt cost u a quid
theres no need to go off and spend lotta more moola
course crocodile dundee would just use dingos to keep him warm … LolOct 17, 2010 at 8:29 pm #1655476
Dingos are a bit warmer than dogs.
So for a Three Dog Night you only really need 2.5 dingos.
FrancoOct 17, 2010 at 9:24 pm #1655485
I considered dingoes but since I'm thing to keep my pack light, I ruled them out. I've had a quick look at the GG before, I'll check out the Kookabay ones :-)Oct 17, 2010 at 9:50 pm #1655489
@b-g-2-2Locale: Silicon Valley
Would you settle for two dingoes and a 'roo?
–B.G.–Oct 17, 2010 at 9:53 pm #1655490
you obviously havent considered that dingoes are self powered
not only will they carry yr gear, and warm you up … they are also a great food source … as your pack weight decreases on yr trip you can eat a dingo and reduce yr carried food … they can also hunt rooos for ya
if amundsen did that on the way to the south pole … im sure BPLers can too
lolOct 17, 2010 at 10:25 pm #1655496
I'll definitely look into the GG thinlite. Is there any info on the R-values for the different thicknesses anywhere?
Franco: This is a bit off topic but we spend a lot of time in the Grampians, mostly climbing on weekend trips, what do you do for water in Summer and Autumn when you are backpacking? It is never readily available at camps sites in these seasons.Oct 18, 2010 at 7:24 am #1655564
if you already have a Neo- you might want to peruse this thread
what I came away with is that a Neo combined w/ a Nightlight (or equivalent) should be comfortable w/ winter temps, very comfortable and if you already own a Neo-very cost effective
also that it's more effective thermally to use the closed cell pad on top of the NeoOct 19, 2010 at 10:29 am #1655926
Use a warmer pad to start. It's AMAZING how much difference a good pad can make in your warmth. Remember, the pad can be worth 35% of your insulation.
If you like the P. Plus, go for the women's model… has an R 4.5 instead of 3.8; the Trail Pro women's is R 5.1, but adds ~7 ounces.
I'd recommend going for a down mat. Makes a big difference in warmth, comfort, packability. R 5.9 to R 8.Oct 19, 2010 at 11:47 am #1655947
+1 for a warmer pad. As Brad alluded to, don't underestimate the warmth of a good pad. Also, carrying a few extra ounces for a warmer pad is well worth a good night's sleep.
You're going to want a pad with at least an R5 rating to stay "thermal neutral." Or at least that's what the math tells us. The warmer the better IMOH.Oct 19, 2010 at 12:21 pm #1655958
So what are my options for a down mat?
Thanks all for your help :)Oct 19, 2010 at 12:36 pm #1655967
I can only comment on KookaBay. You can have a completely custom mat. Mine is 60x20x2.5 with around 6 ounces of down. Weights in at 16 oz in stuff sack. I'll be trying it in temps hovering in the teens this winter, but I've already had it down to 24F and it was toasty.Oct 19, 2010 at 12:40 pm #1655970
KookabayOct 19, 2010 at 8:39 pm #1656131
I think I'll go with a couple of Exped pads if I head down that path, it's just coming into warm weather here so I can wait before I decide. The Kookabay website, I hate to say, has next to no info at all, and none on the down mats. The Warmlite pads don't seem to have a lot of information on their site either.Oct 19, 2010 at 11:09 pm #1656182
Bender is the guy that is Kookabay and he's a member here. It is true that his website is not useful for his custom work, but he is easily contacted via email/pm. I surely wouldn't let a little thing like his website make me spend more money on a heavier down air mat. That's why I put my preference for the Exped after Kookabay.Oct 19, 2010 at 11:17 pm #1656184
@empacitatorLocale: Western Australia
I've actually had no luck getting a response from Bender either via the BPL PM's or by emailing him/using the contact form on his website.
Maybe he's just really busy or not looking for much work at the moment?Oct 19, 2010 at 11:28 pm #1656186
I also sent him a message several weeks ago, and have not heard back from him. Perhaps he is on a long hike?Oct 20, 2010 at 4:36 am #1656223
Yeah, Bender is usually pretty good at getting back to you. No, his website isn't chock full of info, but he's updating it supposedly, and you can still custom order anything.Oct 20, 2010 at 6:45 am #1656244
He left for two weeks a week ago.Oct 20, 2010 at 12:52 pm #1656330
That explains it.
Benen, if you're not on a timeframe, I personally would wait just to see what Bender can do for you. His stuff is much lighter than the exped pads. You should also inquire about the lighter 30D material.Oct 20, 2010 at 5:13 pm #1656438
No I'm not on a time frame, its spring here so I have about 5 months before its starts cooling down again. The exped pads look absolutely amazing, insanely durable and the built in pump looks fantastic. How much does a Kookabay pad weigh? Do they have a known R-value?Oct 20, 2010 at 5:54 pm #1656454
Kookabay down mats are completely custom, so it depends on the height, width, thickness, fabric and quantity of down you order. Bender can let you know after you tell him the specs you want.
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